Something for discussion. Box like David Fisher's wonderful boat bowl...with lid

Photo(s) please

Re: Photo(s) please

Photos after it is done or photos to how-to?

Here's a clip taken from the online edition of that issue of the journal to give you a better idea and maybe see how I figure it may be done. Looking at his website, he may have entirely carved it. I do think a very close approximation (minus the carving) could be done by shifting axes.

Here's David Fisher's website, which has many more interesting bowl forms and great carving.

    https://davidffisher.com/

-Craig

There is no woodturning there, it's all carving.

That is if we restrict any discussion to his boat bowl.

Re: There is no woodturning there, it's all carving.

Yes, I suspect so. As stated in my response to Mark. But it is possible to do such (again, minus the carving) strictly by turning.

Look at many of the natural edge bowls that are higher on the endgrain ends and dip down on the sides. (Like a potato chip.) This is because the bowl is turned with its interior facing the bark side of a portion of half log which curves away from the bowl interior. So let's say that instead of using a half log, you set your initial (spindle orientation) axis on a turning blank to be closer to the opposite side. You turn so you get a smooth curve that reaches to about one third to halfway down the side of the blank, until your curve is smooth across the side opposite the axis of rotation. This radius is greater than that of the base of the final bowl.

Anyway, I'm definitely making the basic boat bowl, minus making it a box, part harder than it needs to be. Try this. Take a log. Turn it to a round cylinder on an axis that runs through the pith. (Yes, it will be close to that to begin with.) Cut out the center (remove the pith, as is usually a good idea). You now have 2 half cylinder blanks from which to make boat bowls.

On the flat side, attach a faceplate, centered. Put it on and turn the outside. It will start looking potato chip-like. Hollow the inside as you would a hollowform with a fairly wide opening. The idea is that as you hollow down you want to leave a broader lip at the top yet still give the impression that the bowl has an even wall thickness by presenting an equal width at the rim. The result should be a longer lip at the top and the dip at the side. (Think of the longer lip as the deck of the boat.)

This may be easier to see with it spinning as turning is a good bit of dead air.

Seems Like

what you're describing is the way to turn a winged bowl; Turn the center bowl then turn the second bowl curve outside of that, then reverse the mount  and turn off the excess under the outside rim.  Swing it wide and you've got a propeller going.  This is a single axis turning.

Bunch of people were turning bowl-in-a-square several years ago with the square's corners curved down to hold the bowl above the table.  Some also bandsawed 2, 3 or 4 "sides" into curves to make buttresses.  Don't need multi-axis procedures to do it.

Seems like...

It should work. Interesting idea, it has been a while since I've done a multi axis project. I have a few dry branch sections in the shop to play around with. 

Good luck with the project!

without the carving...

...it appears to me to be a pretty standard "saddle" form.  First turn a cylinder in endgrain orientation and then rotate 90º and turn the propeller.  So, yes, it is "multiaxis".  

Re: Seems Like

Maybe some similarities, but not the same. Yes, people have turned winged bowls  with curved wings for a long time. I have a pretty crappy one I did very early on.

But no dropped lip. Note David Fisher's bowl, carved or turned, it has a dropped lip that droops at the center of the side. Now if I can get a lid to fit that shape, also turned, I think that should be pretty cool. Granted, I'm not certain my turning skills are up to it. But I suspect with a little planning the result will seem more difficult to do than the task of doing so.

Re: without the carving...

But there are no propellers. This is not a winged bowl. At least not to the extent that anyone would consider it to be such. That's not how I see David's bowl. I'll try to do some test runs in miniature (4") and post some pics. Might not be before next weekend. Paying work to do. I don't sell my turnings.

Re: Seems Like

Definitely a two axis turning. To get that droop on the handles, I might leave the rim on the cylinder a bit thicker, but then you would have to do a little more hand removal of wood on the underside at the juncture where it meets the body(?).

For a box, I would probably leave a bit more of the side intact. I made the opening too wide on this attempt. Making a shallower but wider first cut to elevate the handles then leaving a slight lip for the lid to perch on then hollowing out the chamber.

Another gratuitous lathe shot...  of a truly ugly piece of locust.

With a little refinement of the shape this would be a good canvas for embellishment.

It occurred to me...

that giving the rim on the inside of the cylinder a half dovetail profile as if for recessed mounting to a chuck, might give a better shot at getting a more pleasing curve on the end of those handles. Additionally, adding two more axes by offsetting the center  a small bit toward each handle end might help getting a good shape without as much hand removal of material. Planning a "hidden" carved detail at the terminus where the underside of the handle meets the body might also mitigate hand removal of stock.

thinking in pictures

Craig,  We may not be on the same page, but that form appears to me to be a variation of the three below.  They are done as I described on two perpendicular axes. It's a form taken to further extremes by Luc Deroo.  (You can Google him.)  There are no wings involved, but those little "epaulets" could easily be left on.  A friend of mine has done some with shoulder beads.  Let me know what you think.  

Re: thinking in pictures

It's certainly in the same family. I'm looking mostly at the 2nd one. I wouldn't be apt to go down the side as far for the outer top curve and I would open the opening up more and hollow like a hollowform to undercut the lip of the opening. Leo also did a nice job testing out the idea and leaving slight outer wings, like David Fisher had on his (which, yes, is carved).

Thanks for posting.

Craig, funny you should mention...

I think I've done both variations of what you're describing.  I've done a taller HF with the shallow top, and I've done a HF with the top taken totally all the way around to the bottom.  IMO, both are valid and attractive forms, almost bounding in a mathematical sense, and they were fun to do.  I won a Judges Award from Jane & Arthur Mason for the "tall" one.  They're both in osage orange, purposely to get the grain lines involved in the form.

Sweet!

I too like the taller form, but the lid on other is tres bien.

Thanks, Leo, for both comments. :-)

BTW, my bad, the taller one is black locust, not osage orange. The shorter one is osage.

Re: Craig, funny you should mention...

Awesome! I love Osage. I like it when it ages too. Gets a look like it has been handled for ages.

The third photo ...

 ... is that all one piece, or is it a bowl on a separate stand?

Either way, they al look great

thanks AZ

It's all one piece.  It shows the power of this form in being flexible for design variations.

This particular form can be looked at in two different ways: 1) a bowl on a table, of 2) a winged bowl with a tall foot.

I prefer the latter, although I also appreciate the former.  Eye of the beholder, and all that...  :-)

I made this as a "Bring-back" for our club, BC.  We have not restarted the program, but maybe it's something we should consider again.

for better or worse :-)

Yes, osage ages to a nice "milk chocolate" brown.  The lower of the two forms, the real osage, has done so. I actually preferred it yellow -- the body is now too close in color to the finial wing.  IIWII.  We know these things happen and have to accept it looking forward to the maturation of our works.  :-) The taller one, black locust as I corrected in my note, is still the same color -- and still highly luminous in UV light, as are the locusts.  

nice job, Leo

You can easily "droop" the small wings by just turning a broad bead on the cylinder before you go to the second axis.

A friend of mine also turns small, decorative beads on the shoulders.

If you look at the variations done by Luc Deroo, you will also see the possibility for a center band.

Re: for better or worse :-)

I have some Mulberry and find it behaves very similar to Osage with respect to coloring. Also a pretty tough wood. Added plus, the fruit is FAR better tasting than that of the Osage (which may actually be poisonous, though maybe just to horses(?).)

Agreed...

I also have an old mulberry bowl that is quite dark brown now.