quick question

Re: quick question

Chuck Engstrom

Painting it with household ammonia will probably do more than just trying to fume it. I once spilled some hi-test ammonia on a piece I was fuming and had to coat the whole thing to even out the coloring. If you have scrap cutoffs from your project, try it on them. I have some white oak on hand I could try it on this morning, and if you're coming to the Baltimore CW meeting this Saturday, I can bring you some hi-test 28% stuff.

Be aware that fuming result looks pretty pitiful grayish color until you put some oil-type finish on it, at least that's what I've seen.

Re: quick question

john lucas

all of those techniques are do not penetrate more than a millimeter so If you don't like what it does just sand it off. Well it might go a little deeper in places if allowed to soak. My choice would be to dye it a color and then use white liming wax. Betty Scarpino wrote a great article for American Woodturner on how to do that. One of the problems with natural edge bowls on Oak is you don't get the Cathedral type grain you get on flat boards unless include knots, crotches or limb sections so the grain can be rather boring.

Re: quick question

Barry Irby

I recently made a dining table and funed it with household ammonia. I was very pleased. Put it in a tent and used several pans of ammonia.

While doing that I put some ammonia on a scrap. It darkening it darker and much quicker than the fumes. My back up plan was to slather it on the table if the fuming did not suit me, but the fuming worked out.

I would play with a scrap first. Don't want the bowl to look like a rotten banana.

options

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

You have variable grain orientation going from center to edge, so anything flooded on to the surface is going to absorb this liquid differently across the surface resulting in varying color depending on how much is absorbed. This result might look good, or not. Unless sanded to where the end grain orientation is burnished(dull 180 grit), that end grain will absorb stain exceptionally dark compared to the flat grain of the bottom.

Household ammonia will color what can be colored. Takes longer and needs to be renewed as the ammonia volatilizes from the liquid. However, it works better on white oak and it looks like your wood is red oak.

It is unclear what you want to do. The way to color would be to spray with a dye stain. But that will trade a uniform redish oak to a uniform some other color. Unclear how that result would look "more interesting".

Wetting the surface for inspection

John K Jordan

GC, sorry, I can't begin to answer your question but do have a comment about putting something on the surface to see what it would look like with some finish. I use naphtha for this, dries quickly, does not raise the grain, and leaves no residue. I typically remove it from the lathe first and wipe it on with a piece of paper towel.

Wetting the surface has two other advantages: 1st, when still wet I can move the piece so light hits it a different angles and any turning defects like ripples or high/low spots in the center are obvious. 2nd, as the wet surface gloss goes away but before the naphtha evaporates any remaining scratches are usually far easier to see than when dry.

JKJ

Ebonizing Solution?

Doc Green

What about that steel wool/vinegar solution that can be used to turn walnut black to make poor man's ebony? I think it works on oak as well.

Re: Ebonizing Solution?

rch

I've tried both fuming and ebonizing, though on oak rather than walnut, since I am allergic to walnut. I much prefer fuming.

I found that ebonizing was far effective in 'blackening' the wood, so that the color became essentially uniform. On the other hand, fuming would darken the wood yet leave grain variation at least subtly visible.

I have used only household ammonia, mostly with white rather than red oak. It darkens white oak much more effectively than red. I have seen no need to use the >20% strength ammonia. In my experience, 12-24 hours exposure to household ammonia produces darkening to a depth of 1-2 mm (>1/16"). I have no interest in dealing with the stronger ammonia. Household ammonia is merely smelly and requires far fewer precautions, yet is entirely effective in my use.

The only caveat about my use of household ammonia -- I have only used it for fuming spindles and plates/platters, all of which fit in a 18x18x24 plastic tote bin. I have not used it for furniture. I do not apply liquid ammonia directly to the wood -- I depend on the fumes.

Re: quick question

tomB

Fuming is your best bet. I've never used anything but household ammonia and usually leave it overnite, with really good results (fresh bottle will work best).

Looking at the bowl, you should get nice bands of alternating color with the lighter rings and the rays will stand out better.

Re: quick question

Dennis in Southern Oregon

I am with Tom on this. I have had good luck fuming small pieces using household ammonia. I use a 5 gal paint bucket with lid with a jury-rigged stand on the bottom to hold the pieces above the half cup or so of ammonia. One to three days works, depending on the shade darkening wanted. I was particularly pleased with the results for cherry.

A few years ago I gave a demo at my club on this subject and, in preparation, fumed samples of 16 different species of wood. For each wood, I sanded a small sample and cut it in half, saving one half for comparison to the fumed version. The following pictures, which were included in my demo handouts, show the results. I can’t remember the fume time, but I think it was two or three days. The photography is poor, unfortunately, as I did not go to much trouble, knowing that the club members could see the results directly. Interestingly, all of the woods tried darkened to some extent and many could be said to produce an attractive result.

Re: quick question

tomB

Nice chart Dennis, I have never tried Cherry or Maple, but it looks like it could be worthwhile. I have done Black Locust and it goes very dark - almost black.

Re: quick question

Don Stephan

Unless you are planning on sanding off the coat of Watco, brushing on liquid ammonia or dye or stain may color the top and bottom differently. If I remember, George Frank, when a relatively new employee, saved the day when oak furniture installed in a bank was judged too light. Presumably a complete finishing schedule was already on the furniture. He suggested closing up the building for the weekend and placing trays of ammonia throughout. By monday the furniture was just the right color.

Wow!  LOTS of great answers here!

GaryG in MD

First, let me say a sincere "thank you" to you all, for the time and experience you put into your replies. I have to admit this is much more really-good info than I expected to receive. Kudos y'all. I've got a lot on my plate right now -- deliverables due and a trip coming up, so I've got to get my nose to the stone -- so I won't be able to respond to each of you individually, but please be assured that I read them all carefully and intend to copy them all into a Word document for my future "memory". I may even put them into a future newsletter as a "YMMV" article, but if I do, I'll ask your individual permissions. Dennis and I did that once to very good effect with his "successive approximations" sphere-turning method.

Second, I am very encouraged to learn that I can do the fuming with the household product. I'll go right out and buy a new bottle and give it a try. That's the best of all worlds -- cheap, quick, simple, and hopefully effective.

Thanks too, for all your thoughtful caveats and concerns about possible variations in results -- just the kinds of things I wanted and needed to hear.

I feel comfortable that I'm going to get an "interesting" positive result, and one that I expect to be able to appreciate.

Dennis, thanks for the photos -- at a thousand words apiece, that's quite a treatise! I wish I had known this about cherry a year ago -- I went to a lot of trouble darkening a box lid by other means, and this would have been SO much easier! Live and learn.

I'll be sure to post the results when I get a chance -- but it might be a few weeks, given my other responsibilities. (...sigh..., life sure does get in the way some times.)

...GG