lacquer va. varnish

Re: lacquer va. varnish

Don Stephan

True nitrocellulose lacquer is very repairable, but I would not consider it as durable as alkyd varnish. There are so many finishing products today labelled "lacquer" that are not true NC lacquer, and may be more durable but less repairable.

As I want to be able to know what finish is on a particular bowl, and to minimize my costs and partially used gelled finishes, I started using Pratt & Lambert 38 gloss alkyd varnish years ago as a wiping varnish (thinned 50-50 with a good quality mineral spirits). As a wiping varnish, I apply between 5 and 7 coats to get an even semi-gloss look. My cereal bowl has been used daily now for almost 27 months with no sign of water damage, so I consider P&L 38 very durable.

I've been told many people use one or two different compounds on buffing wheels like those by Beall to get a "perfect" finish. While I have them, I've never gotten the courage to risk throwing a bowl across the room.

buffing

John K Jordan

I use the buffing wheels on all kinds of things. Years ago I threw a couple of small things with the wheels until I learned to hold on and to pay attention to the speed and what the wheel could grab with respect to the rotation.

On smooth things like the bottom or outside of a bowl or platter I run at fairly high speed. When I have something with a corner or edge that might catch I slow the rotation down considerably to allow the wheel to soften and "flow around" the corner. This is sometimes on the inside of a bowl or platter. Small things, I just hold on carefully!

I only buff oil finishes, i.e., multiple coats of "danish" oil, and some wood with no finish, such as hard exotics like as ebony.

JKJ

It's not so much what finish or how you apply it

Dick Coers

It's more of what you do after the finish is cured. If you want a smooth finish you have to put in the effort after it's cured. You have to level the finish and remove any nibs that got in it while it was wet. (It is a rare occurrence when you get a perfect finish right out of the spray gun.) That can involve dry sanding, wet sanding, buffing, polishing compounds etc. Brushing lacquer requires a chemical retarder being added to the lacquer. Either as an additive, or already mixed into the thinner. You need to buy your products from a good automotive paint supplier, or a professional cabinet finish supplier, not a big box store.

Cure time is most significant difference

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

I don't finish bowls but I finish acres of flat work. The most significant difference is curing time. From start to finish I can be done finishing a chest of drawers in two hours and 15 minutes of actual labor. Lacquer dries to the touch in seconds to a minute or two. Apply sanding sealer, sand, apply top coat, done.

Varnish takes hours to cure and this cure time is highly temperature dependent. In a cold shop it might not cure dry to the touch in a day and a week to get hard. At best varnish takes 2 hours to be dry to the touch on a 90 degree day.

Lacquer is durable. But there are other spray products that are more so, for example conversion varnish.

For any finish if there is a need to rub it out smooth the application was flawed. Each finish has its challenges to apply smooth, but it can be done.

Shellac is another option. This bed post was finished with shellac right on the lathe- foam brush, slow spin speed and 2 pound cut of shellac.

Re: lacquer va. varnish

Barry L Elder

What do you mean "lacquer va. varnish?

Re: lacquer vs. varnish

adrien coblentz

I was interested in why one might be preferred over the other. .

Bill Tindall made some interesting points as to the difference between the two. Sounds like lacquer has an edge.

I like the idea of buffing the finished piece. Sounds like something worth trying. Thanx to Don Stephan and John Jordan for the suggestion.

Re: lacquer va. varnish

David Walser

adrien -- Allow me to suggest you spend some quality time browsing through "Russ's Corner". Russ Fairfield, was a frequent contributor to WoodCentral and many of his articles are archived in Russ's Corner, under ARTICLES in the menu at right. Among the gems, is a set of 13 articles of Russ's 'Finishing Secrets'. One of the things he shares is his view of the advantages and disadvantages of various types of common woodworking finishes. It's a very useful resource.

Russ was a very smart and experienced woodworker and turner. Most of what he wrote was well researched and was accurate (given the limitations of summarizing complex issues and writing for a lay audience). Unfortunately, Russ left us far too soon. Some of his materials are a bit dated and new products have come to market. Still, spending time Russ's Corner is always worth the visit.

Re: lacquer va. varnish

John lucas

Any finish will.get glossy if you do 2 things. Sand to at least 800 grit. Apply enough coats to fill any pores or defects. Then finish the finish. I will often just buff with the Bealle system unless I want a.glass like finish. If that's necessary I level the finish with 600 grit and then work up to 1500 grit and follow that with automotive polishes. The quickest build and easiest I have found it Birchwood-Casey True Oil. You can get it at gun stores or sometimes Walmart in the shooting supplies. You put on a coat and let it dry over night. Then sand it with 600 grit until only then pores are glossy. Apply another coat and do the same. Once you sand it and the entire bowl is satin looking with no glossy holes just apply one more coat. It usually takes about 7 to 10 coats. Beautiful finish and pretty durable. It was designed as a gun stock finish so has to stand up to abuse.