Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

for food or just handling protection?

John K Jordan

I like the oil finishes which penetrate somewhat into the wood. I typically use 6-10 wiped on/off applications of "danish" oil, basically BLO, mineral spirits, and a little poly or something. Can be buffed for a shine or to a soft sheen with 0000 or rottenstone/pumice.

For a non-glossy outside, have you tried acrylic spray? Some well-known turners and wood artists have said they use Krylon matte acrylic from a rattle can. Simple to apply and dries quickly for multiple coats. On things I've tried it on it looks like no finish but protects the wood from handling. But it can be buffed with a cloth for a gentle semi gloss or even beall buffed for a bit of a shine.

Re: for food or just handling protection?

Mike Schwing

Well that would have been a good tidbit for me to add, thanks John. I think these finishes should be food safe. I could offer a food safe or decorative finish option, but it adds complexity and time to a 3 hour class which is always in danger of going over anyway.

I didn't really even consider a quick spray finish like Krylon matte but that sounds like something worth investigating. You may have just solved one of my own problems - I've a set of nested maple bowls I've bleached to porcelain white but have thus far left unfinished as I don't want to disturb or discolor the surface.

Thanks!

The green blanks are dry enough to finish?

Re: for food or just handling protection?

mikeee12345

A rattle can offers several options and would be quick and easy during a class, shellac is considered a food grade product as they use it to polish certain candies with. I have made a number of different friction finishes with shellac and various oils, which could be food grade. For a small bowl you could apply several coats of CA glue which is quick and easy to apply while on the lathe, if you care to tolerate fumes and glued fingers.

Re: for food or just handling protection?

john lucas

I think it's hard to beat Mahoneys Oil. It does leave a rather satin or almost matte surface unless you buff it with the Beale system. I have never liked any rattlecan finishes I've tried other than Krylon Fixatif which looks like no finish has been applied and probably isn't food safe.

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

Reed Gray

For daily use bowls, I prefer the walnut oil, which is easy to maintain over the years. I never liked spray surface finishes, which eventually chip, crack and peel off, and the spray can stink up a class room. I do prefer the Doctor's Woodshop mix to Mike's, but both are good. I think the Doc's version has a better wax mix in it. Just about any penetrating oil will high light defects. Pretty much the same for a surface finish.

robo hippy

I wouldn'd consider a spray finish.....

JamieDonaldson

...for class applications unless you have a spray booth to eliminate volatile carriers, and they are seldom considered as food safe as oils. Spray finishes can be more expensive than some oil finishes, and most penetrating oils don't have the drying times as extended as surface finishes. If just sealing the work with a food safe finish that doesn't emphasize surface defects I would use mineral oil.

Mineral Oil and Beeswax

Doc Green

A mixture of mineral oil and beeswax is hard to beat.

http://www.docgreenwoodturner.com/mineraloil.html

Re: Mineral Oil and Beeswax

Mike Stafford

I'll second the beeswax and mineral oil. It is easy to apply and easy to maintain and is food safe.

All of my kitchen tools are finished with beeswax and mineral oil. It couldn't be easier to make.

Start with a cup of mineral oil.

You also need 2 ounces of beeswax.

Pour the mineral oil into the pan and add the beeswax. Melt over low heat just until the beeswax has completely dissolved, stirring as it melts. Once the mixture is blended, remove from heat. Allow it to cool for a few minutes minutes so it's not too hot to pour into a glass jar. Then pour it into the jar and allow it to finish cooling completely. Add a lid and store at ambient temperatures.

When I use it I scoop some onto a smooth clean cloth like T-shirt material and knead it into the cloth. Wipe the oil/wax mixture directly onto the wood, adding enough to evenly coat the entire surface. Allow it to sit for a while to let the wood absorb some. With a clean rag wipe off the excess vigorously to build up some heat which helps the finish melt into the wood. If you apply the finish on the lathe while the turning is rotating you can easily get an even coat and build up friction to melt it into the wood. Buffing with clean soft cloth gives a nice satin sheen.

Most of the time I just store my rag in the jar and use it to rub on some finish while the turning is still rotating on the lathe. For small objects you almost never have to scoop more onto the rag.

Best part of an oil/wax finish is that it is really good at hiding little sanding imperfections.

Re: The green blanks are dry enough to finish?

Mike Schwing

No Dick. Either I didn't explain or you didn't read correctly. You decide which!

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

Don Stephan

Obviously I am in the minority, but I don't like the idea of applying a finish in class that the students aren't likely to have at home. And it would seem inefficient to suggest everyone buy and keep a bottle of woodurning walnut oil at home for just one bowl - what I would consider a heavy environmental burden (manufacturing, packaging, shipping). Many households already have mineral oil, and for those that don't it is likely in every grocery store, so it is much easier/cheaper to obtain than woodturning walnut oil. Nor would I be comfortable telling a group of people to go home and heat oil and beeswax on their stove, given the fire hazard. For someone who knows what the risks are, and doesn't leave the stove until the process is complete, it may be safe. But it does have significant fire risk if one is not attentive and knowledgeable.

Plenty of confusion to me

Dick Coers

You have people suggesting you to spray on a finish, wax it, oil it, etc... But no idea how thin they are turning the blanks, how long a class lasts, or if the blanks are throwing water when you start. So it just seems like darts are being thrown at a wall hoping that something will stick. Pun intended.

Beeswax finish

John K Jordan

Mike,

The beeswax finish might be a good solution. I use it quite a bit straight (I like it on eastern red cedar) either rubbed on or melted into the wood with a heat gun.

A few years ago I sent some beeswax to a gentleman to experiment with. He sent me his favorite formula.

Bill White's final formula, 11-12/2016

Mixed the wax with BLO

40% wax/60% BLO.

Added a splash of EV olive oil to retard any drying from the BLO.

Send me an email if you want some beeswax to play with.

JKJ

Re: Plenty of confusion to me

Mike Schwing

Well I definitely did state that we were finishing them when they were dry. If so thickness is immaterial. Sorry you're confused, appreciate your input just the same.

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

Mike Schwing

Thanks everyone! Sorry I confused at least one of you. A lot of good things to consider here. I have a can of Fixatif somewhere, I think I'm going to tape up a bowl into 3 sections and compare fixatif, beeswax, and walnut oil to see where the sweet spot is. Mainly I just want students to think their work looks great when they leave and it looks the same when they get it home. It has to be easy, something they can acquire easily on their own, and doesn't keep them from thinking this is all too complicated as I want them to return to our makerspace to use what they learned.

Thx again. Mike

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

mikeee12345

If you are teaching a beginners class you can always start with the basics like Shellac which can be used for wood sealing, an easily applied finish, easily repaired, and dries quickly.

Re: Mineral Oil and Beeswax

Bob Moffett

Hey Mike, Do you use white or yellow bees wax? Both are avaliable on Amazon. Bob

Re: Mineral Oil and Beeswax

Mike Stafford

Yes....

Actually I bought 5 pounds of beeswax some years ago which is light yellow to creamy in color. I just shave some off the block and melt it into the hot oil.

This is not a finish for your art pieces. There are a number of disadvantages to using a mineral oil/beeswax finish. First of all it will show fingerprints and it will become grimy over time if the wax isn't thoroughly friction melted into the wood. If the surface is tacky when you are done then you are not done as the finish hasn't properly melted into the wood. It should feel silky smooth but not tacky.

It is best used on kitchenware that people are going to use for food not for your art display items. Richard Raffan used it on his boxes.

Just Beeswax

John K Jordan

>>>... it will show fingerprints and it will become grimy over time if the wax isn't thoroughly friction melted into the wood. If the surface is tacky when you are done then you are not done as the finish hasn't properly melted into the wood. It should feel silky smooth but not tacky.

I've used just beeswax as a finish, mostly on eastern red cedar. I've applied it by friction and we've used one small serving platter for about 5 years now. I rubbed any excess off with a cotton cloth, off the lathe.

For a darker look on cedar you can melt the wax into the wood with a heat gun. I warm the wood then rub the wax stick which melts a little. Then apply more heat to melt that and rub on a little more. The excess rubs off easily. This way is good to even out the if you get some streaks

All pure beeswax is yellow directly from the hive. It can be bleached in the sun to turn it white but I think most suppliers use a chemical bleach. I bought some white wax once and it seemed to work fine but since I get it from the beehives now I have a lot of the yellow. I usually use the white on screw threads and such - used it yesterday to lubricate a large drill bit that was squealing when drilling a deep hole for a tool handle.

I cut big pieces of beeswax into more useful sizes with the bandsaw.

JKJ

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

David Walser

Mike — You’ve already received lots of good suggestions. Allow me to add a couple of comments. First: I’m a big fan of walnut oil for this type of bowl. The oil can be used as a sanding lubricant, which not only keeps the dust down, has the advantage of ‘finishing’ the bowl by the time you’re through sanding through all the grits. (And, the walnut oil found in the supermarket for use in cooking or in making a salad dressing, works just fine. This makes it easy for the owner of the bowl to find oil to renew the finish.)

I’m also a big fan of Deft’s Clear Wood Finish. It’s an oil-based brushing lacquer that can be wiped on while turning the lathe by hand. Then, let the let the lacquer soak into the wood for a couple of minutes and wipe off any excess. Within 15-30 minutes, the surface should be dry to the touch and you can apply another coat. After a couple of hours, you can sand back to the bare wood (using the Deft as a sanding sealer) or (if using the Deft as a final finish) you can continue building coats until you have the depth and sheen you desire. There’s no need to sand between coats. One coat of lacquer ‘melts’ into the next. If you use the Deft as a sanding sealer, it is compatible with any oil based finish. Otherwise, you might need a coat of shellac between it and your final finish. But, once fully cured, Deft if food safe! So, it’s a fine choice for a bowl.

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

Don Stephan

I'm not familiar with grocery store walnut oil. Does it dry/cure? If not, are there individuals allergic to grocery store walnut oil?

But David, Deft products are no longer......

JamieDonaldson

...readily available since the company was bought out, I don't remember by whom. I have regularly used Deft Lacquer for many years, a very familiar "scent" in a wood shop. I keep hoping that the products would be reintroduced, but it's been several years now with no replacements. (:

Re: Suggestions on a classroom finish sought

David Walser

Yes, the walnut oil sold in supermarkets will harden. Just make sure it’s pure, with no additives. Will the supermarket oils work as well as the oil sold as a finish? In some cases, they are exactly the same thing. In some cases, the finishing oils have been heat treated to help them cure more quickly.

As for food alergies, I have three comments: 1st — Given the number of people in the world today, somebody is bound to be allergic to virtually every substance. So, I don’t think you can put any finish (even no finish) that is 100% safe. 2nd — The part of the nut that people are allergic to is the protein, not the oil. By filtering the oil (which is done by the maker of the oil), virtually all if not all the allergy causing protein should be gone. 3rd — Even if some protein is left in the oil, once the oil is hardened, the protein is no longer available to cause a reaction.

Re: But David, Deft products are no longer......

David Walser

Jamie — I understand that Deft has become harder to come by. I’ve seen it at the local Ace Hardware and Home Depot. It’s not always in stock, but it’s carried frequently. Deft is also carried by CSUSA.