Green Ornament

Sweet -  Awesome Job Keith

Keith

GaryG in MD

I really like what you're doing with these (including previous ones, both from recently and in earlier years).

I've been particularly looking at them upside-down as would-be finials.

Even though we often say "a form should look good upside down", I've come to the conclusion that there is a subtle difference between the best icicles and upside-down finials. This is an example of that. The cove elements here, between birds beaks, stretch the form out a bit, which I think is perfect for icicles, but perhaps might not look quite as good in finials.

So, IMO, we have subtly different creatures, and you're nailing them. ...GG

two more things...

GaryG in MD

1) I really like your single-hole string. I think this is a huge improvement.

Do you just have a big knot on the inside?

2) I like the larger "flying saucer" on the bottom tip of this one (compared with the red one). It may have been by accident, but I think it's a feature you should keep.

your finials are exquisite

john lucas

And it was really hard to spell exquisite this morning. You have an good eye for form and obviously the skills to carry it off.. I love turning finials. Every time I turn one I see some little thing I wish I had changed. maybe the cove needs to be heavier toward the bottom or the bulge in the spindle doesn't quite flow into the forms above and below. Most people would never notice but I do and it frustrates me and at the same time I enjoy the effort.

Re: Green Ornament

Keith Tompkins

HI Gary, Here are a few sketches I drew before turning the ornaments. I can visualize how the elements will fit together, and what dimensions may need changing. For example, you mention the "saucer." I will take a progress pic, my next finial has two saucers, and a larger tip. Visually it is as though the larger tip is being pulled by gravity, stretching the finial. I don't like accidental design changes, they usually end up in the wood stove. But, I like to study a piece, and see what can be changed for the next piece. Most of my finials are traditional turning....beads, coves, fillets, and no straight lines. Fair curves are the most important.

Re: Green Ornament

Keith Tompkins

Gary, how's this?

A question

Bill Tindall, E.Tn.

what tools are you using for the finial? And if it is not too much to type, what for holding whilst turning?

If not perfect your ornaments come as close as it gets. (my daughter's art teacher professed that only God and De Vinci produced perfect work)

Re: Green Ornament

Tom Gall

Keith, all three (?) of your recently posted ornaments are absolutely beautiful and deserve all the superlatives others have posted about them. The icicles/finials are, as John said, "exquisite". These should all be displayed individually on their own stand to be appreciated for their beauty, delicacy and "near" perfection.

However, re: the "near" comment (a minor "nit"). Most people, including myself, believe that ornaments are meant to be hung on a tree. All of these are rather dark, especially with the blackwood icicles, and their beauty/visibility would totally be lost on a tree. Maybe you should make a few with holly or light maple icicles (even with a light wash of white acrylic paint).

All that said, I would love to display one of your ornaments all year long!

Re: A question

Barry Irby

Mine are not nearly as nice as Keith's, but I hold mine by starting with a blank that is maybe 3/4" square and five or six inches long. I grind a "Morse" taper on one end with a belt or disk sander and then drive it into the shaft of the lathe and then bring up the tail stock to support it. This way, the shaft of the lathe is not in the way as a chuck would be and I can leave the tail stock in place until the last minute. I use one of the ball bearing centers with the cup and small pin in the tail stock. Also, you can flex the piece a bit to get near perfect centering on the outboard end.

I don't have any fancy tools. Most of mine are done with a bowl gouge and refined with a 1/2" skew. It might help if I drew them out first.

sketches

John K Jordan

>>> Here are a few sketches I drew before turning the ornaments...

Great photo and post. I also like to make sketches first. I've heard some say they just let the wood "speak" to them while turning but when I do that it often says something like "ha, that was dumb." I made a couple of dozen sketches recently before turning a batch of bottle stoppers.

JKJ

I'm not Keith but do turn a lot of ornaments.

John lucas

I use a small.Sorby spindle gouge and/or my 1/4"skew. These are small.tools but they dont need to be. When I demo I use my Thompson 3 /8"detail gouge. I use a Vicmarc 120 chucks with 1" jaws and hold a 1" or 3/4" piece about 6" long. I start the turning using the tailstock but after I get the first element roughed I remove it and use my fingers as a steady.

holding and turning finials

John K Jordan

>>>what tools are you using for the finial? And if it is not too much to type, what for holding whilst turning?

I'm not Keith either but I can tell you what I use.

For turning, a 1/4" skew I made from a round rod, 3/8" spindle gouge, a 1/4" spindle gouge, 3/8" detail gouge (all Thompson) , and I forget what else.

For holding, I used to use a block held in small jaws in a chuck but recently have been using #2MT collets with a 1/2" hole. Turn a 1/2" tenon on the wood and hold in the headstock with a drawbar. Individual collets are cheap; a set is nice to have for other work too: from 1/8" to 1/2".

The collet is nice since it gives more working room close to the end without the chuck and jaws in the way. It uses a 3/8" drawbar. I got a couple from Little Machine Shop and a couple of sets from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BH5Q7GM

Some just-for-practice finials, holly and ebony.

My finials also aren't as nice as Keith's, but then I'm not Keith either!

One advantage to using a collet instead of a chuck is the work can be removed from the collet and remounted without losing registration. Can't always do that with a block in a chuck.

JKJ

Re: A question

Keith Tompkins

HI Bill, I'll try to answer everyone's questions at once. First, I always hold my blank in a chuck; I try to leave a long tenon, just in case I run out of room. I can just slide my blank out of the jaws, and retighten. I use jaws that will open about an inch. I use the tailstock just to get the piece fairly round, then remove it. My usual tools: Craftsman 1/2" skew, high carbon, not HS steel. Packard 3/8 spindle gouge. I have a handful of specialty tools, mostly fluteless gouges in 3/16" and 1/8". See pic of 3/16" tool. It's ground on top, then the same angle for the bevel, which is kept to a minimum. I showed it in comparison to a Thompson detail gouge...notice the cutting edge is near the bottom, not the top as in the detail gouge. The tool won't roll over and catch. The cutter is embedded in a stainless steel rod for support, no flexing, and I can use the tool far over the tool rest. Long handle, turned on two axis points...fits my hand, and won't roll off the table. I find the tailstock must be removed...any pressure causes the blank to flex, and one cannot get the 1/16" or less diameter I want. I don't try to make a long, skinny finial....that will create a straight line, and I avoid that, I want a flowing curve. Yes, sketches are invaluable. If I want to fly by the seat of my pants, I can. But, production pieces are more successful with a plan. Hope this helps.

Re: Green Ornament

Keith Tompkins

Hi Tom, Thanks! All my finials are sent with a stand, and these are what colors the recipients want. The dark colors actually help show the silhouette, which I really like. I like to turn the dark, dense woods. Rosewood, ebony, pink ivory, etc.

Re: Green Ornament

Keith Tompkins

Forgot to mention, My v-skew is perfect for turning finials, it will follow contours, and make flowing curves with not interruptions.

Interesting handle!

Re: Green Ornament

Keith Tompkins

Now you have me thinking Tom. I will turn an ornament of Holly.

thank you