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Burls

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Burls

#1

Jerry Maske

Burls

Jerry Maske

Just got three Cherry Burls from a freshly cut tree, so they are wet and heavy. I cleaned the outside of one and got it as evenly balanced as something like that is possible. Then let it beat me to death getting it turned. No surprise there.

My question is what I'm finding inside the burl, and again, this isn't a real surprise. When a burl forms, you never know what you may find inside. Got some stunningly beautiful wood, but got a fair amount of "Punky" stuff too. Some is close enough to the bottom that I'll turn it off for the base, but I was wondering if there's anything I can pour on to solidify what needs to stay? Or do I change my design ideas? No idea how deep it is. If I find it on the inside, I'll clean it out and have a new design no other kid on the block will have.

Anyway, I've got two more of these monsters to work. This one was the smallest and the easiest to work with, if what I've just done can be called "Easy."

Appreciate the guidance in advance.

Jerry

Re: Burls

#2

Re: Burls

john lucas

I use one of 3 things. I use thinned lacquer for mild punky areas. Areas that just don't cut clean and wood is soft but not real bad. May take multiple coats and let it dry for a few hours. I've used minwax woodhardener but it was so long ago I don't remember the good and bad of it. Apparently it worked because I remember selling the piece but just don't remember the details of it's use. I've also used System 3 mirror coat 2 part epoxy. It penetrates punky wood fairly deeply as it cures. It sometimes takes multiple coats and days to cure.

I'm sure there are probably better ways today. Mostly now I either try to avoid those areas by redesign. Or try to cut them clean enough that it's only a mild problem. I'm guessing the best way is to vacuum stabilize it but I haven't tried that yet. Cactus Juice is what many use for stabilizing punky blanks.

Re: Burls

#3

Re: Burls

John K Jordan

The Minwax wood hardener didn't do much on some punky areas when I tried it. The sanding sealer worked better. The best was flooding it with very thin CA glue. This took a lot of glue.

JKJ

Re: Burls

#4

Minwax wood hardener *LINK*

Dick Coers

This stuff is 75% solvent. 3% methanol and 72% acetone. I know guys that dissolve scrap plexiglas in acetone and use that. WAY cheaper. But there is punky, and then there is "sponge level" punky. If you can put the rough turned burl in a pressure paint pot, and pull a vacuum on it, any hardener goes in much deeper. But as Jordan mentioned, thin CA is the fastest method.


https://www.minwax.com/document/MSDS/en/027426417007

Re: Burls

#5

The only good use for Minwax Wood......

JamieDonaldson

......Hardener is the recycling of the metal can for my lacquer/10% acetone mix. This elixir is my go-to for sanding sealer/wood hardener/finish and needs a metal can so the acetone doesn't dissolve a plastic container.

Re: Burls

#6

Re: Burls

David Walser

Jerry -- If the wood is not too punky, using thinned lacquer or poly is the way to go. It's easy and you already have all you need to do the job. And advantage to this approach is that resulting finished item will show no signs that you treated the punky areas -- provided you were going to finish the piece with lacquer or poly anyway.

Minwax High Performance Wood Hardener works well. There are two problems with it: First, it's relatively expensive. Second, it doesn't penetrate evenly. (Which makes sense. Punky/porous wood will absorb more of the wood hardener than will solid/dense wood.) This is a problem because the more heavily treated wood will take a finish differently than the less treated wood. Once the solvents evaporate, you're left with a hard plastic resin that surrounds and stabilizes the treated wood fibers. The plastic won't react to stain or finish like the wood. You have the same problem with wood stabilized with thin CA glue -- for the same reason.

Another option is to stabilize the entire blank with Cactus Juice or a similar product. The typical problem with stabilizing a large blank with Cactus Juice is getting the product to penetrate more than 1.5" - 2" deep. Since you've already hollowed the blank, that shouldn't be an issue. The next problem is finding a vacuum chamber large enough. However, it's possible to turn a kitchen pot into a vacuum chamber, so this problem can be overcome. (To use Cactus Juice, you submerge the item in Cactus Juice inside a vacuum chamber and use a vacuum pump to extract as much of the air out of the blank as possible. Then, you release the vacuum, which 'forces' the Cactus Juice inside the blank.)

Once cured, you have an item that turns and finishes more like plastic than wood. This is because the Cactus Juice, a plastic, has replaced the air spaces (both within and without the cells of the treated wood). This obviously affects how the item will take a finish. However, you can still get the look you're after by dyeing the wood before/while stabilizing it. Done properly, you'll end up with an object that looks just like an untreated turning -- the only difference being that the stabilized piece will be harder and more durable.

Stabilizing is becoming more popular among turners, so you may have someone close to you that already has all the necessary equipment and supplies.

Re: Burls

#7

Hazard???

Bill Howatt

Is there any safety issue with pumping the fumes of such a volatile mixture of acetone etc.

Of course there are various types of pumps such as vane, piston, etc that might be a factor as well.

Bill

Re: Burls

#8

Re: Hazard???

David Walser

Yes, Bill, there is a safety issue with using Minwax Wood Hardener under vacuum. It can be done safely with the proper equipment. But, that's one of the advantages of using Cactus Juice (or one of the similar products) that is designed for use in a vacuum chamber.

Minwax Wood Hardener cures as its solvents evaporate. The evaporating vapor is highly flammable. In contrast, Cactus Juice is neither toxic nor flammable. Cactus Juice is cured by heating it to about 200 degrees F. Virtually all of the Cactus Juice liquid cures into solid plastic (by weight).

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