This spindle roughing gouge is made from 1" diameter Thompson steel. The shaft (can hardly call it a tang) is 5/8" diameter, the same as the smaller (and incredible) Thompson/St.Leger 5/8" roughing gouge. The smaller one is my favorite for small diameter spindles but this one works great for 2" to 4" spindles.
For a handle that would fit both, plus a few others, I made a new adapter on the metal-cutting lathe. This one is cut from a 1-1/4" diameter brass rod from the scrap yard. Drilling the 5/8" thru hole was tricky.
The largest I've made so far, it's pretty heavy made from brass, and the gouge is heavy too. To balance the weight I turned the handle from a piece of a Persimmon tree I cut here in 2006. A 3/4" hole is drilled deep into the handle so I can adjust the protrusion of a couple of longer tools with 5/8" shafts.
Beautiful job on that handle and ferrule, John. I would have a couple questions...
What is good balance in a turning tool? Where should the pivot point be in relation to the tool and the handle? Should you make up the difference by making the handle longer? Or is short and stouter okay?
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I've got turning tools of many sizes and shapes and I've never though too much about the design of the handle, or how heavy it should be or how its weight corresponds with the dynamics of tool heft and control. A comfortable hand position would seem to be a plus. But what about weight and balance? I'm sure it's been debated plenty in the past, but I guess I'm still looking for some fundamentals of design criteria.
Also, does the fact that this is a fat insert going into the wood handle dictate the size or proportions of the handle, especially where the leverage points are? Seems like sturdiness under strain or catch would be the parameter we're going for here. Of course they're mitigated by the tool rest.
Thought that it might make the tool handle better. I made several tool handles and purposely shifted the weight. When playing with the tools (not turning just playing) I like the center of gravity to be about 3inches from the Ferrel on the wooden side. Spins in your hand really nice. So you look kind of like a Ninja. In actual use I really can't tell the difference other than for rough cuts I like more weight in the handle. It absorbs the vibration more. Really heavy tools that are heavy toward the tool end are awkward until you get them on the tool rest. Once I start using them I don't notice much difference.
I have made some tool handle out of steel pipe which is an easy way to absorb vibration. I like, certain tools, like my bowl gouge to have a long and relatively heavy handle.
....really are no rules, most spindle turning tools have shorter handles because they are mostly held in front of the body. For bowl gouges the handles are longer, and I like gouge handles to be long enough to anchor on my hip in use. Adding shot to hollow handles and other such modifications are more a matter of personal preference.
>>>What is good balance in a turning tool? Where should the pivot point be in relation to the tool and the handle? Should you make up the difference by making the handle longer? Or is short and stouter okay?
To me, the balance is not as important as the length, since one end of the tool is on the rest. The length permits holding and guiding the tool differently for different circumstances - I might hold a long handle against my hip but hold a shorter handle against my side. A very short handle is just held in the hand but my forearm or elbow is against my side. (Except for certain detail spindle cuts which need significant motion!)
I also like a medium-length handle (perhaps 12-14"?) for one-handed cuts with the "left-hand" steady rest method - in this case I grip the handle near the rest with my right hand, pressing the end under my forearm for support. A handle either too long or too short (or too heavy!) would make this harder. For this type of cut I also want a fairly short tool extension - one of the reasons I like to make the adapters with set screws.
I'm not sure what the optimum balance should be, but when I first made the handle in the photo the balance didn't feel "right". The photo was after my adapter was corrected. I made it at first with the 1" diameter end too long - after test fitting it in the handle the weight of the heavy brass was too much on the end, even with the fairly heavy Persimmon handle. The balance was worse, of course, with the heavy gouge inserted. Part of the problem was too much length which put the heavy gouge even further out there. I shortened the adapter by cutting about 3/4" off the end and redrilling/tapping for the top set screw. The whole thing feels much better now. A fairly subjective thing...
I am a big fan of short handles for spindle turning, as preached by Frank Penta. In fact, I generally use the 5/8" St.Leger/Thompson gouge with NO handle for smaller diameter spindles, up to 1.5" or so. Some of my other spindle tools have very short or no handles.
However, I find a larger roughing gouge better for larger spindles. Combined with high speeds (I usually turn spindles at over 3000 rpm) the extra mass of the new 1" tool+handle and the shape of the flute makes it feel smoother than with some of my other roughing gouges. I did make this handle a little longer than the others - holding my left hand near the end and against my hip/side worked well roughing a 3" square.
I think the best shape for a handle is also a very subjective thing. To me, the most important thing about a handle is the feel in my hand. I don't like cold metal handles. I like the feel of a contoured wood handle rather than a cylinder. I do want a secure grip at times so I add some kind of texture. For heavier use more mass in the handle makes it easier to use. I use some of those heavy steel sponge-rubber coated Monster handles for some tasks.
I think much of handle design depends on the size and type of turnings. For small work I use a number of gouges, scrapers, parting tools and even a skew or two with no handle at all. Deep hollowing with a large Hunter, small cutter, or heavy scraper - I want strong, long, heavy handle.
For the big 5/8" shafts I did consider the strength of the insert. I made the part of the insert that is glued into the handle a 7/8" OD giving a 1/8" wall thickness. I also made it fairly long to sink it further into the wood. Since I wanted the exposed part to be 1" diameter, only 1/16" of wood was left at the rim of the hole in the handle. However, I shaped the handle so the thickness increased quickly to add strength. (Persimmon is quite strong, too.) I think the combination would even hold up to considerable abuse!
I wasn't overly concerned about the overall strength since there should never be strong side forces on the tool - all force from roughing even a large square blank should be straight along the axis of the handle. Even then, the forces are very light with a good cut and sharp edge. I could easily hold the handle between my thumb and one finger and guide the tool with just one finger at the rest and round the large square.
We don't allow catches, now. Actually, a catch on a spindle, even when roughing, isn't the heart-stopping event of one on a large bowl blank or inside a big hollow form!
Ok, now this note probably looks like a bunch of disjointed late-night rambling. I'd better quit - I need to get up in about 4 hours!
>>>Just curious, what was tricky about drilling the 5/8in through hole? I normally drill a pilot hole then the final size.
When I started I planned to bore to final size. My problem was I THOUGHT I had a boring bar for my lathe but didn't. I have one for the mill with an R8 collet. I didn't have a good way to rig up holding a boring bit otherwise. I also didn't have a good 5/8" drill bit!
I drilled a pilot hole, maybe 1/4", then a 1/2" hole. Those were easy since I had good bits, but the bits were too short for the whole length.
I found an old 5/8" beat taper bit wit a 2MT that had been abused, held in a big chuck, and maybe with vise grips! I filed the MT the best I could but it kept slipping. I ended up clamping it to prevent it from turning in the tailstock. In addition, the cutting edge was horrible so I had to sharpen by hand - and I'm not the best at that! Then the outer tips of the bit kept chipping off even with very low feed so I had to resharpen a dozen times. Based on the chips this didn't look like the free-machining 360 brass I'm used to, which may have contributed to the problem.
If I make another one from brass (or steel) I'll buy a new bit, or better, get a way to use my boring bar on the lathe. Or maybe just bore it on the mill...
Oh, after I finally got the hole drilled, I still had to enlarge it for clearance - I used a big round file. It took me three times longer to drill the hole than turn the piece!
That's when I discovered I'd made it too long and too heavy, but fixing that was easy.
I used aluminum and it was a piece of cake. The hardest part was getting the hose onto the black pipe. I made this handle for a 3/8 fluteless detail gouge.
Yes, I've made a bunch with 6061 aluminum with no problems. I might make another one with a 5/8" hole in the next couple of days, this time from aluminum.
JKJ you had me going with that SRG as Doug has not made that SRG for more than a few years. The current one is 1 1/4" with a 3/4" tang and they do stay sharp for a long time.
47% of the mass should be 3 5/8 inches in front of the ferrule. The weight of the handle will have to be adjusted as the tool becomes shorter from sharpening.
Actually, a catch on a spindle, even when roughing, isn't the heart-stopping event of one on a large bowl blank or inside a big hollow form!
