Urn questions

Nope

Dick Coers

My experience is that a plastic bag goes in first, then the ashes go inside the bag and the bag is sealed. No need for a finish inside. It is tough to make the urn for a family member, but you usually are reminded of many happy memories of their life while you work on it.

Ditto what he said

John C Lucas

Ive made 2 now. One for my Dad And one for my first wife. They put a bag in both and sealed the ashes in that.

Thanks

Ellis Walentine

That's pretty much what I figured. Y' just never know when there might be some new news.

Ellis

Re: Urn questions

John K Jordan

Not a happy task. Your turning will certainly be well appreciated.

Questions about urns, sizes, and specifications come up occasionally. Is there an article on WoodCentral about them? Perhaps some knowledgeable and experienced person would be willing to write one. Or maybe some discussion in a thread could be distilled into something we could reference if needed.

JKJ

Re: Urn questions

Hal Taylor

Good point JKJ. Also, since a plastic bag is first put in, how large should the opening be?

Re: Urn questions

mikeee12345

Some urns are small and some are large depending on their intended use.

The urn size is also relative to the person (baby or adult).

It usually averages 1 cubic inch for every pound of the person.

The opening for the lid should be at least 2" in diameter or more.

A smaller opening makes it very difficult to transfer the ashes into the urn.

Re: Urn questions

Dick Coers

I'm certain they use a funnel for the ash, so as long as they can take a dowel to insert the bag, it will work. Larger makes it easier for the crematory guys.

We did a scattering at sea for my step Father. He was a lifer in the Navy. I was a bit put back by the larger chunks of bone. About the size of my small fingernail. It was an event I'll never forget. The water was pretty rough off the California coast. The pilot of the boat circled two times, and it calmed the water inside the circle he had made in the water. It was incredibly touching as we first threw in roses and then each followed with spreading some ashes.

For me, the ashes will be spread in a certain virgin redwood preserve in California. A redwood forest is the most spiritual cathedral ever made.

Inches ber pound translates to

Ralph Lindberg

1 cup is 15 lbs

1 kg is 36 ml (or 36 cc)

Re: Urn questions

mikeee12345

http://www.perfectmemorials.com/guides/how-to-select-the-right-size-cremation-urn/?gclid=CLWO7cjHu9MCFcO6wAodsccCYw

Article?

John K Jordan

>>>Some urns are ...

The urn size is ...

The opening for the lid should be ...

It sounds like you would be the perfect volunteer to write the WoodCentral article!

JKJ

Re: Article?

Mike Stafford

John, I wrote an article for Woodturning Design entitled Spalted Hackberry Urn which provided most of the details you are seeking including how to figure the necessary volume and estimate how large the cavity would be inside the turning blank.

I used some math for the calculations but also provided links to do the calculations for you.

Re: Article?

John K Jordan

>>>John, I wrote an article for Woodturning Design entitled Spalted Hackberry Urn which provided ...

Ah, then maybe you could write an article for WoodCentral!

Just to be clear, I don't need information on an urn (at this time, anyway). I simply thought it would be useful in an article here since I've seen threads in the past with questions.

JKJ

Muir Woods

gbalock

Dick,

I can see your point. One of the most spiritual places I've been was Muir Woods. It felt like speaking in anything above a whisper was profane.

George

Re: Urn questions

Brad Vietje

Dick Coers wrote:

"I was a bit put back by the larger chunks of bone. About the size of my small fingernail."

I hear ya there! I made one for my mom's ashes (she died 3 years ago tomorrow), and since I've turned a large number of hollow forms with small openings, I stupidly opted for a 1" hole, with threaded PVC fittings recessed an glued in, which only leaves around 5/8" - 7/8" or so inside the threads. AND, since I already had the ashes in a plain blue cardboard box from the undertaker, I opted to transfer the ashes myself. Don't do that unless you have no other option; trust me on this one -- handling your mom's or dad's ashes is not something you really want to do while facing all the emotions of a funeral/memorial service, seeing long-lost relations, explaining all this to young grand-kids, nephews, etc... Best left to others. If you DO have to do this, a larger opening will make the job a LOT less challenging.

With the plastic bag extending out the small hole, and a funnel inserted into that, it was not very easy to transfer the ashes and other bits through that small opening. Go bigger, for sure, and let someone else do that part.

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: Article?

Guy Bratt

Here's an excerpt from Mike Stafford's article in More Woodturning Magazine June 2015. Just the math.

Time for Some Math

As I conducted my research for this project I found information from a number of other turners who generally agreed that one should plan on having an internal volume sufficient to hold at least one cubic inch per pound of body weight before cremation. Taffy was a not-so-svelte little girl at somewhere near 20 pounds. So I would need a hollowed out area in my urn of at least 20 cubic inches. One source I found said I could use rice to determine the required space by measuring the equivalent volume in an ordinary measuring cup containing the correct amount of dry rice which is both retrievable and reusable. But the question remained: How much rice?

I found a web site which helped me determine this answer:

www.metric-conversions.org/volume/cubic-inches-to-us-ounces-table.htm.

The conversion table on this site provides the information necessary to determine the volume 20 cubic inches (or virtually any number of cubic inches for that matter) will occupy by use of an ordinary measuring cup. The table shows that 20 cubic inches of cremains will occupy 11.1 ounces in a liquid measuring cup. Now with rice and a plastic bag I can visualize the size of the internal volume required for the urn. I measured 12 ounces of rice in a measuring cup and put it in a plastic bag. I then laid the plastic bag of rice roughly formed into the shape I envisioned for the interior of my urn on my spalted hackberry blank. I positioned the bag of rice so that it was in the area where the body cavity of my urn would be located. It was obvious by doing this that my piece of wood was going to be large enough to accommodate the volume I wanted to enclose (see Figure 3).

FIGURE 3

And Some More Math

For those of you who are more mathematically inclined and wish to more accurately determine the volume of the hollow form I suggest you think of the interior shape as a truncated cone; i.e., a cone with the pointed end cut off. By determining the diameter/radii at the top and bottom and height of the hollow area inside the urn there is a formula that can be used to accurately calculate the volume.

Volume= â…“ π (r12 + r1r2 + r22) H

Or more simply just go to this link and plug in the height, radius of the major diameter, radius of the minor diameter and hit calculate to let their computer do the work for you.

keisan.casio.com/has10/SpecExec.cgi?id=system/2006/1223372110

Once this volume is known, the trick with the rice can be used to visualize the internal volume needed for the cremains.

Formula

John K Jordan

>>>Volume= â…“ π (r12 + r1r2 + r22) H

Guy,

The formula you copied has lost usefulness due to ASCII character issues.

The volume 'V' of a truncated cone (a frustum of a cone) can be calculated, using '^' to represent raising something to a power, '*' for multiplication, '/' for division, and 'pi' for 3.14..., with 'R' and 'r' for the radii of the ends and 'H' for the height,

V = (R^2 + R*r + r^2) * pi * H / 3

or perhaps simpler, avoiding the squaring operations,

V = (R*R + R*r + r*r) * pi * H / 3

That is, unless I made an iPad typo...

If the inside walls are curved instead of straight (quite likely) you can get a very close approximation by stacking several truncated cones (or cylinders) and adding the volume of each. Warning: if you make the segments small and numerous enough you are getting dangerously close to using calculus. Yikes!

JKJ

Re: Formula

Guy Bratt

John If you could see my face right now. It's a look of complete confusion and wonder. I was passed through algebra because I tried hard to understand, I had a tutor and I was a nice guy. Hopeless case???

I calculated the size I needed by doing what you suggested in your last paragraph. Calculating several ring volumes and adding them up. Close enough. It took a while but I didn't develop an aneurysm. LOL

Thanks for trying to explain things to a stump.

Re: Formula

John K Jordan

>>>Thanks for trying to explain things to a stump.

Ha! We are all born stumps when it comes to math! It takes a lot of work to "turn" that stump into a finished piece. :-)

My math education was almost a half century ago and although it was a little rough starting out it got easier fast. Fortunately for me, I used some math in both my software and graphics work over the years so it didn't fade completely.

Today I feel somewhat like a dry, roughed-out bowl that has that useful piece inside if I just take make the effort to work on it! Just please never, ever bring up eigenvalues...

JKJ