Demonstrators

Re: Demonstrators

john lucas

Good thread Willie. I like to show cutting techniques to try and help them improve their skills but I know most people seem to want to see a project that they can go home and make. While doing a project I try to introduce tool skills or possibly surface decoration that more advanced turners will enjoy so they don't go home empty handed. It gets complicated.

I know my videos are purely skill oriented right now but I'm planning to do some project videos in the future. Just have to get all the jobs done that are backed up from not having a shop for a year.

I will be glad to hear what others think. I have 3 demos coming up. One will be surface design for the Tennessee Association. One will be turning goblets for the Mid Tenn Woodturners and the other will be Turning Banksia pods and Tagua nuts for the Chattanooga club.

For the surface design demo there won't be a project completion but will show how to add surface designs to several projects or to simply show the technique. The Goblet demo will be turning a solid wood goblet and then turning just a goblet stem and show how I attach them to glass goblet bowls. The Bansksia pod and Tagua nut demo will be part just showing possible cutting and turning techniques along with a quick project. Of course each demo will include how I use the tools and achieve better cutting skills.

Re: Demonstrators

bowlman

" What is a good demo? Do you want to see a big name? Is instruction of techniques important? Are you wanting to learn another way to complete a project? What is it that gets you excited about a demo?"

From an audience viewpoint, I think a good demo is primarily educational. I want to learn how to do what I do better, more efficiently, and more effectively.

Big names? Yes and no. I want to see whoever is going to help me learn what I want to learn.

Instruction of techniques IS important ... at least to me. I also like demos that include design as part of the learning experience.

Do I want to learn another way to complete a project? Of course, Why else would I pay to attend a demo?

What gets me excited about a demo is a knowledgeable and enthusiastic demonstrator who obviously knows his/her stuff, who doesn't take themselves too seriously, and who relates to the audience. I also look for demonstrators who don't think that their way is the only way. The "my way is the only way" demonstrators cause me to leave immediately.

On the other side, as a demonstrator I try to impart new/alternative ways to do things, whatever that is. If it is surface decoration, I try to show as many techniques as possible within the allotted time frame. If it is a project, I try to show multiple ways to get the desired end result. And, I try to impart what i have learned from 35+ years of making mistakes.

And whether I am am watching a demo or doing a demo, I try to learn something new. As an example, in October I conducted 3 days of hands on classes for Lyle Jamieson's North West Michigan Woodturners chapter. I learned a new way to orient spheres when using cup chucks and making the transition of axis 1 to 2 to 3 and back again ... from one of the students.

When decorating spheres, i showed a technique involving a glue gun. When it came time to add a new stick to what was already in the gun, I placed a blob of melted glue on the end of the new stick and attached it to the end of the stick already in the gun. Lyle was amazed. He had been fumbling with adding glue sticks for years.

Just goes to show, no matter the number of years of experience, many or few, we can all teach each other something and we can all learn from others.

Merry Christmas, and a Happy, Healthy, Safe and Prosperous New Year to us all!!!! Ho Ho Ho ...

Re: Demonstrators

mikeee12345

Many times it is the turner that has the least amount of equipment that develops

the most creative solutions for common methods used in the craft.

Some of these solutions are so simple it comes down to using the equipment and

tools you have available to achieve the desired goals in creative ways.

This knowledge is usually acquired by years of hands on experience and picking up tips

and tricks from other people in the trade and many times from people outside the

trade that have encountered similar problems in other crafts and trades.

Hey Willie, You thinking about doing demonstration

Keith Newton

If you are, let me just put in a good word for you.

y'all might remember a few years ago, I ask on this forum if anyone knew of any professional turners willing to take on turing about 60 - 80 custom balusters for a historic restoration that I was doing. Willie responded to me, and got the job. He recently did another about 2 months ago, and may get to do another soon.

Although we've never met, I can say with confidence, from seeing the clean crisp cuts and quick turnaround, that he certainly knows spindle turning better than anyone I've ever dealt with. So if any of you folks out in the VA area needing someone to do a demonstration, you should give him a call.

You might not be interested in it, but I just thought by the way you ask those questions, that you might be thinking about it.

Some thoughts

John K Jordan

What makes a live demo better than just watching a video? A big advantage to me is the interaction, the opportunity to ask questions, hearing the answers to other questions I didn't even think about asking. Seeing and holding and feeling the demo piece and well-done examples the demonstrator brought. Seeing, sketching, and photographing special tools and grinds. Watching the expressions of the demonstrator and the audience rather than just seeing hands working. Feeling the enthusiasm of the people around me. The smell of wood, the sight of chips flying, the sound. The opportunity, at times, to purchase special tools, videos, and such. And my favorite thing: meeting the turner in person, making new friends!

Some not-so-well-organized (and long-winded) specifics:

I love a demo with a lot of variety, hopefully some new ways to do things. I absolutely love seeing clever ways other people approach things or solve a problem.

I like it when a demonstrator explains everything as he (or she) goes. It is sometimes hard to talk while turning but I'd far rather he stop, explain what he is about do do or just did. This is far better than us watching while he works without commentary, as if he assumes everyone can see exactly what he is doing and why. I can get that from a YouTube video.

I sometimes dislike sitting and watching someone make something from start to finish where some steps are time-consuming and repetitive. I want to see the setup, I like to see the way he stands, holds tools, approaches sanding, etc. I have no interest in watching 10 minutes of sanding, sanding, sanding, sanding. Years ago I attended a class where a well known turner was making variations of something. He went through every step from start to finish, even if he had just made a similar one earlier. He even showed us sanding through all the grits, every time. A far more interesting demo: have several pieces at different stages of completion. Rather than hollowing this one completely, start the hollowing then pop on one with the hollowing completed and go to the next step. (These stages are also good to have on hand in case of a disaster!) Who cares if the demo piece is not sanded to perfection? I don't want to watch you make a masterpiece from start to finish - I want to know how you go about making the masterpiece.

- Along with that, I do like to see some well-done completed pieces, related but not necessarily identical, with good design, flawless finish. These can be inspiring.

- I do realize there are exceptions where completing something from start to finish is desirable or necessary. An example was Chris Ramsey turning a cowboy hat - this one really should be completed once started. Fortunately, it was an all-day event (and Chris is quite interesting!)

I love seeing what tools a demonstrator chooses for certain tasks, especially if they are unconventional or custom made. I especially like to hear the reasoning of why this tool or technique works well for him in this situation. I like hearing about what he has tried that DIDN'T work so well.

I LOVE good handouts! I take notes but it is easy to miss something. Even simple drawings or photos can help a lot, especially if it's a couple months before I get to try his ideas. A list of resources is great also with names, URLs, and phone numbers. Some demonstrators even include their own contact info in case of questions.

I prefer to have the handout at the beginning rather than the end. This way I can make notes in the margins, can check something I just missed, underline something important, etc.

I like to hear about alternate ways to do things. It is nice to learn why he chose this tool or holding method or cut over other methods, if there is a real benefit or even if other methods should work equally well. I believe this can really help a beginner too, perhaps encouraging him to try things with the tools he has rather than think he has to go buy a new whatever to make that thing.

I like a demonstrator who explains things so clearly a beginner can understand - I far prefer this than a demo aimed at advanced turners. This may sound odd since I have a reasonable expertise with most turning, but 1) I'm not the only one in the room, 2) some of us may be quite advanced in one type of turning and beginners at other things, and 3) hearing about something I already do often gives me a new perspective or suggest a variation. Some of the best "pro" demonstrators are very good at this - teaching to the newest beginner but still keeping the longtime turners interested.

I enjoy hearing about the demonstrator's thought process about the design as well as the method, his ideas on size, proportions, the reasoning for adding or omitting detail, why he thinks this curve is best here, the reason for that wall thickness. If the only reason for a design is "it just kind of turned out that way", I want to hear that too!

I like to hear about a person's favorite wood species (or tool, or finish) for particular things and WHY.

I like to hear from the demonstrator about things that have gone wrong in the past. This helps to know what to watch out for. This is better than pretending everything is perfect all the time and he never makes mistakes!

Going along with that, I dislike a demo where the primary purpose seems to be to impress the audience.

I love a demonstrator with energy, one who is obviously adept, and one with a good sense of humor! If you can't have fun with turning, why bother?

I dislike sitting through a demo given by an obvious beginner. I've seen a couple of these and they are painful - safety issues, poor technique and tool control, lots of catches, horrible (in my opinion) design. I suspect many of us have seen YouTube videos like that...

I like to watch someone who is obviously skilled and skilled at a wide variety of things - it shows in his turning. The opposite is more painful to watch than a beginner. I drove three hours to see one memorable demo a few years ago - the long time turner who let us know at the beginning he had been making these platters for 25 years now and could almost make one in his sleep. He used dull tools ("I don't want to stop and sharpen"), had horrible tool technique ("I'm pushing as HARD AS I CAN"), didn't believe in safety equipment, had terrible and avoidable tearout ("It's nothing a little 80 grit won't fix"), and proceeded to cut right through the bottom of an expensive platter blank ("I never measure the depth since I've done this so many times").

When I am the one giving the demo I try to remember these things, keep it as lively as possible, throw in a surprise if possible. I try to have several partially completed things ready, at least in case of a disaster. I try to pay attention to whether people are interested or about to nod off. I try to be organized where I'm not always hunting for something. (Still have a lot of room for improvement with this!)

I love honest feedback, good or bad. I'm quite interested in what people say in this thread about what they like and don't like so much.

BTW, one of my favorite demonstrators is none other than John Lucas!

Oops, I think I wrote way too much again...

JKJ

Re: Some thoughts

Willie Simmons

Thanks for the good reply. I like seeing in person and the interaction is important. I hope others will give their imput.

Re: Demonstrators

Alan Zenreich

Willie,

A good question... and it depends on the ability of the demonstrator to read his/her audience and adjust the demonstration to suit the audience.

The approach I use is "how do we best spend this time together?"

Some demonstrators are trying to impress the audience. The better demonstrators are trying to teach not only what they do, but WHY they do it.

Lauren and I enjoy teaching woodturning, particularly when we teach making jewelry. It's also nice because we are not teaching 'yet another bowl demo' so folks are seeing tools and techniques that may be new to them, and it can keep their attention.

We are doing an online interactive demo tomorrow evening, and look forward to the club's feedback.

Re: Some thoughts

mikeee12345

John,

It seems like your holding back, tell us what you really think. :-)

Feedback for the demonstrators is the best learning tool for them.

I have to agree watching someone sand wood or rough a blank round gets old real quick.

I find myself fast forwarding through some YouTube videos hoping to find nuggets of knowledge.

There is a multitude of resources to choose from these days, you need to hold peoples attention and

provide a wealth of knowledge to make an impression on people these days.

Re: Demonstrators

robo hippy

I have seen a few demos that I didn't like, and/or videos. Mostly they are ones that are 'Heck, I could have done the same demo in half the time' because they spend more time talking than actually demonstrating.... Two different people can do a demo on the same thing, and one I will like, and not the other. Most of that is because the project is not explained in a way that most will understand.

robo hippy

Re: Demonstrators

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

The demonstrator should bring, prepped ahead of arrival time each major step of the turning process. That way no matter time constraints, mistakes, missing or broken equipment, or hidden cracks the project can be completed. Routine turning like sanding can be skipped.

The use of giant tool tips for showing how to sharpen or cutting angles are very useful.

I realize that airline weight restrictions can be a problem, so ship a box ahead by UPS or FEDEX.

Having attended one of the largest clubs in America, Carolina Mountain Woodturners: KNOW YOUR DEMONSTRATOR. Some of the most famous are the worst teachers, and some of the newest will BRIGHTEN your day!

Re: Demonstrators

Lyle Jamieson

I did a poll a few years back because I was starting a new sequence of YouTube videos. As I traveled around the country teaching, I asked the participants, Would you rather be entertained by a demonstrator or be educated?? The vast majority of folks I polled wanted to learn the process and put less value on a finished product. I think John Lukas has the right approach, you need a little of both.

I am far more a teacher than a entertainer. I do have continuous feedback in my demos with questions I ask the participants and encourage the audience to ask questions. I go to great lengths to answer questions in some detail. I have been pleasantly surprised to see this working very well in the Live remote demos over the internet I have done so far.

OOPS, Sorry John I spelled your name wrong

No problem Leil. 

I before E except after C

Dave Delo

Okay.........I'll be the smart azz

Re: Some thoughts

Don Orr

Definitely not too much here John K.-LOTS of great insight and information. I whole-heartedly agree. I've seen a lot of demos-some good, some not. Your list of observations could be a guide for demonstrators on how to do a great demonstration. I saw several things that I certainly can do better on. I only demo at my local clubs though. I try to throw in a joke or 2 but nobody ever laughs-must be me ;-).

Many people have a hard time getting up in front of a crowd so I think it wise to practice your demo at home as much as possible so if you get a little nervous you can still get through it. This is not usually a problem for the pros.I try to have an outline of my steps and highlights of things I want to emphasize as I work to stay on track. Doesn't always work-especially if you don't look at it.

Preparation is very important-from a viewing standpoint as well as doing a demo. I don't like fumbling around nor watching someone fumble for tools and such.

Trying to stay on task can be challenging-especially when questions are asked.

We have finally come up with a reasonable sound system so demonstrators can be heard and video that works fairly well-a big plus.

Sadly I think a lot of turning clubs, at least here, tend to be a night out of the house for a bit of entertainment for many of the members. Our instant galleries are not well populated. I'm not even sure how many ever turn anything at all.

I'd be very interested in trying a remote demo by video a la Alan Z.

LOL

Re: Some thoughts

john lucas

A quote from Don "Sadly I think a lot of turning clubs, at least here, tend to be a night out of the house for a bit of entertainment for many of the members. Our instant galleries are not well populated. I'm not even sure how many ever turn anything at all. "

Boy I could not agree more. I would say approximately half of both clubs I belong to may be that way. They never bring anything to the instant gallery and often sit back and chat with their friend during the demo. I'm not saying anyone has to bring stuff to the instant gallery. Maybe they just don't want to, or maybe they are embarrassed. I try to get everyone to bring work. Sure it's not as good as the better guys but we love to see what your doing and get to watch you improve over the years. Just do the best you can and then bring it in for us to enjoy.

These same members who come purely for the entertainment also never run for office or do anything else to help out the club. Pretty frustrating.

Re: Hey Willie, You thinking about doing demonstra

Roger Chandler

I have watched Willie Simmons do two demos.........let me tell you, he certainly knows his stuff, and can carry the mail!!! One of the best with the skew I have ever personally seen. All around nice guy as well!

He invited me to his shop one time, but I could not make it on that occasion, but hope to get to his place at some time in the future if his invitation still stands!

Re: Some thoughts

Brent English

Hey John K. Jordan: Spot on and well said ! I've taken the liberty of sending your comments to some aspiring demonstrators I know.

brand new demonstrators

john lucas

The saying goes, you have to start somewhere. Sure it is sometimes painful to watch new turners do a demo. They struggle with the tools, cut uphill with the grain, cut poor tenons for the chuck, etc. They are concentrating so hard on just making the cuts that they don't say a word and just cut, probably sweating and nervous as hell. Been there, done that.

My first demo was turning a bowl from some dry walnut I had. Man did I struggle. I don't know if my tools were dull, or I was cutting wrong or what but I fought that stupid bowl for the whole demo. I think I did manage to show brand new turners how to get the wood round, mount it on a faceplate and then turn the bowl. Hopefully they didn't learn all the bad things I did. I know the experienced turners in the club were probably biting their lips to keep from saying something to help out. It did however get me to thinking about how I demo and what it takes and of course it did lead to me eventually doing a lot of demos.

The same people can't demo all the time in small clubs. You need to get other people involved in club activities and that includes being willing to do a demo. Many times it's just showing people how they did a certain project so that we can turn one is all that's necessary. Sometimes if you know the turner well you can discuss how they would improve their technique afterwords. Most are receptive if approached properly. Newer turners will miss or forget a lot of the tool techniques discussed so the important part is just to get them to remember all the steps to complete the project.

So I urge turners who have a little time at the lathe to volunteer to do a demo. Then try to learn from it. Ask your fellow turners how you did. What would they do different, etc. Then you learn from this and practice for your next demo. It all comes back to you. The more you demo the more you learn from other people who attend the demo.

Re: Good demonstrators starts by showing up

Dave Paine

I am not trying to be flippant. My local turning club had two demonstrators who were no shows this year.

In one case the club VP found out the demonstrator was out of town and able to get another club member to do a demonstration.

Two months later the VP had called another demonstrator to confirm they still going to demonstrate. We got to the meeting and no demonstrator. He forgot. No notice so no demonstration that month.

I have been at the club since 2013, these were the first instances where this happened.

I have enjoyed many demonstrations. Some were showing a new type of project, some were showing technique. The club does not have the best camera and a bad placement of the monitor in the far left corner. This results in the audience not always being able to see the details of the technique.

Many demonstrators do not spend enough time explaining some of the techniques.

A good demonstrator should be prepared and may need several partially completed items if the project is complicated.