Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998
Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Brian Roberts
Quite a while back I saw reference to Brian McEvoy having available full mechanical drawing of the boring bar system that Frank Sudol designed.
Any one have the drawing....anywhere.....still....gathering dust?
Lots of pictures out there....but drawings are nice!
Thanks all for looking!
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
John C Lucas
Ive built several over the years and took a class from Frank where we used his bar. His wasnt really much different than Lyle Jamiesons except maybe larger. Of course Lyle now has a large baf also. I think Lyle had plans on his web site.
Personally i like Steve Sinners bar because its easier to store. I have been collecting the metal to make a larger bar so i can turn deeper vessels.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Brian Roberts
Thanks John....I have machine shop access so am leaning toward making something.
Not sure what yet but will likely be a composite of what's out there.
I like the look of the Sudol system I have seen pics of.....with a large bar that can be broken down.
The 1 1/2' solid bar will certainly dampen vibration better than hollow tubing.
I didn't see plans on Lyle's site....
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
John C Lucas
Not sure sulid bar is more rigid. Seems like i read that somewhere. Better to ask the engineers on this site. It is certainly heavier. You can hurt youself if you dont pick it up correctly.
When i made my first one i made it 8 " between the parallel arms. I thought this was necessary as a torque arresting device. I later learned that if the cutters on the curved bars are aligned with the center of the bar and the front and rear tool rest are set up so your cutting on center, there isnt any real twisting or torque of the cutter. So the parrallel bars can be much closer which is why i like Steve Sinners.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Dave Paine
Not sure sulid bar is more rigid. Seems like i read that somewhere.
For the same material, and heat treating a cylinder is stronger than a solid bar - of the same mass. Hence a cylinder of the same diameter as a solid bar will not be as strong since the cylinder will have less mass.
Stronger, means stiffer, so less deflection for the same load.
I agree with John, 1 1/2in solid bar would be too heavy for me to want to handle, even if aluminium. I have pieces of this diameter in the shop. They are not light.
Vibration of the cutting tool is due to inconsistent load. The tool is constantly flexing and springing back. In metal machining this would be called chatter.
There are a number of factors which contribute to vibration of a hollowing bar, such as the distance of the cutting tip from the tool rest, density of the wood, variations of density of the wood, rotational speed, depth of cut, etc.
The resistance to flexing is determined by the tools tensile strength. The higher the tensile strength, the less the material flexes under load.
Different steels have very different tensile strength. Try making a bent tool from a piece of 3/8in dia steel rod from the hardware store. You should be able to bend this in a vise with a lever or hammer.
Now try making a bent tool from a piece of 3/8in dia O1 drill rod. You will find it is very difficult with a vise and hammer. This alloy has 2-3 times the tensile strength.
Higher mass is the easiest way to dampen the vibration. So you want either a very dense material, or a lot of the material.
I like to use O1 drill rod for the shaft of my home made tools. Much stronger than hardware steel, more dense, consistent diameter. This is normally purchased as annealed, which means not hardened. It can easily be hardened if needed. It will need to be purchased from a metal supply house, or a company which sells machining supplies like MSC, Grainger, McMaster-Carr, etc.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system.... *LINK*
Hal Taylor
I'm pretty sure the Carter hollower is the same as the Frank Sudol hollower. It was first marketed by Brian McEvoy.
Hollower
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
RonBauer
Chatter is also (equally???) impacted by the cutter, its edge profile and its angle of introduction relative the wood surface.
Thanks Hal....
Brian Roberts
Yes ...I have looked at Carter's stuff...and was aware of the McEvoy/Carter connection.
Just looking for lots of info before deciding which way to go.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Ric Taylor
I second the vote for Steve Sinner's system. I've had several systems over the years eventually settled on the Sinner system for the reasons you mentioned, plus there are several subtle safety enhancements built in.
Re: AAW Journal
jake Niedling
There was an article in the AAW journal at least 20 years ago by Steve Sinner and Dale Hupp. It was pretty detailed regarding the engineering and design of a long boring bar system. I am sure it is the basis for what Steve Sinner markets today. So you might want to do a search.
Re: American Woodturner Volume 16 - Issue no. 3
jake Niedling
In the AAW magazine volume 16, issue # 3 and on pages 36 - 43 you will find the Steve Sinner and Dale Hupp articles on designing a boring bar system. Hope this helps you.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
john lucas
Your link doesn't work. The Frank Sudol system I used is nothing like the Carter Holly Roller if that's the one you are talking about. Franks was a very heavy duty version of the Lyle Jamieson hollowing system. Lyle's new deep hollowing system is similar but if memory serves me well it's hollow square tubing so it will be tolerable to handle where Franks is' quite heavy.
The early Mcevoy system was just taking over Franks design. I don't know if he changed it later on.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Hal Taylor
John, sorry the link didn't work. Try again:
This is the large Brian McEvoy system Carter is now selling which is based on the Frank Sudol design.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
John C Lucas
Yes thats very similar with the addition of the roller. Looks very substantial but then carter usually does things right when they pick up a product.
Re: Frank Sudol's boring bar system....
Josh Bowman
Brian, I bought one of Brian McEvoys last systems. 3 of us in our club has one. I can say this for it......it's heavy, but surprisingly easy to use. Almost no chatter as you go very deep into a HF. If you need any measurements from mine, just ask.
Thanks all for...
Brian Roberts
the suggestions!
And thanks Josh....may take you up on that!
