I have been asked to do 1 day and 3 hour classes at the Appalachian Center for crafts. A little daunting since I'm used to doing 2 day or week long. Usually takes the people 1 day to get the hang of the tools. So I may be doing some creative tool usage to get them through these.
I'm going to do the 2 part candlestick for the all day session and the candleholder for the 3 hour. For the 3 hour class I think I'll show them how to use a parting tool, spindle roughing gouge and then the skew as a scaper for the bead and either round nose scaper for the body or Hunter Hercules or Osprey. Most people just can't seem to get the bevel rubbing cuts that quickly.
I need to ask about the Hunter tools. I asked a fellow at our club about them and thought I'd started WWIII. There's a couple companies that make those things and they seem to me to be pretty functional. I don't depend on them and ignore everything thing else, but there's times with those round tools will go places and do things I just can't do otherwise.
Why do you suppose some folks seem to react to them with vengeance?
Same reason I used to react to using a scraper. It felt like cheating. However I decided to play some more and find that for beginners especially scrapers are just so much easier.
If you mention carbide tools you get the same bad response mostly because they see the EZ wood tools that are purely scrapers and dull ones at that. However look how many people use them. The main reason is there is no learning curve. just stick the tool in there. eventually if they want to grow they learn to use bevel rubbing tools.
The Hunter tools and other cupped carbide tools are a different breed. Yes you can use them as scrapers and they cut cleaner and stay sharp far longer than the EZ wood tools. However if you use them as bevel rubbing tools they surpass traditional HSS tools in the cut quality in most cases. You can't do everything with them of course because of the round shape but where they are used nothing surpasses them.
I still turn mostly with a bowl gouge. It's just such a versatile tool, but when I have a problem I go to the Hunter tools. I'm thinking about teaching a class where we only use one of the Hunter tools. Either a bowl class with the Clewes 1st mate or Hunter Hercules, or a spindle class with the Hercules or Osprey.
Jerry, I agree with Sir Lucas. The Hunter tools are my go-to tools for many things. When I run into a problem with, for example, with things like tearout, vibration, smoothness on tricky cuts, I stop and try something else. Much of the time I end up solving the problem with one of the Hunter tools. Other times, the Hunter carbide is what I reach for first.
My favorite tools are the Osprey and the Hercules since I can use them very easily just like a gouge. I also like those with the big tapered shafts (can't remember the names) since they are incredibly stiff even with long reaches over the tool rest. I've been turning colored acrylic lately and the Hunter Hercules is what I mostly use. Gets almost too hot to touch but stays sharp, sharp, sharp! The surface possible on acrylic is almost polished (in the bevel-rubbing mode) and is so good on wood I often don't need coarser than 600 grit paper, and no sanding sometimes.
I've tried other carbide tools and there is NO comparison. I donated my Easy Wood tools after they sat unused for years after repeated disappointments. They are perfect for some people but just don't fit with the way I like to turn.
If you can, get some hands-on with some of Mike Hunters carbide. I don't remember where you live but if you find yourself in TN give a holler!
"Why do you suppose some folks seem to react to them with vengeance?"
My opinion; To some people, honing their craft is more important than the results. They find great pleasure duplicating skills that have been passed on for generations and find the journey more important than the destination. They find it repulsive, the idea of just shoving a carbide tipped piece of steel into the wood to get a shape. No matter the surface finish, since they can start sanding with 80 grit. Hunter carbides are not the same as a flat scraper. There are some on the pen turner's site, that even endorse making a pen with an 80 grit flap sander. To those people, that final pen is the only goal.
Dick -- I think you nailed it. A lot of woodworkers prefer working with hand tools rather than power tools. Some only have a mild preference for using hand tools when they can. Others are pretty hardcore about it.
Well there are purists in every crowd. Im in both corners. I think you should design a project and then use whatever tools you have the skill to use to finish the project. No one knows what you use once its done. The reason to learn to use cutting tools is to reduce sanding time and leave crisper edges.
There are times when i use a scraper to sneak up on a shape or clean up tool marks. Its getting less and less but i dont hesitate if thats what i need.
...use my favorite Hunter #5 tool like an EZ Wood scraper, and stick it straight into the wood with the cutter held horizontal. It will then self-feed and create an underwear soiling CATCH, and they are then never again willing to learn proper presentation of how to apply the tool to wood on the diagonal.
Re: I've encountered folks that have tried to.....
john lucas
Jamie I got one of the first Hunter tools, a #4 which has the cutter mounted flat. I of course got one whale of a catch. The I figured out how to use it made my first Hunter video showing how it works and the wonders of this tool. I'm thinking about teaching a class and using only the Hunter Hercules or Osprey, except we will need a parting tool for a couple of cuts. I would do those cuts with the Hunter but beginners might have problems cutting that shoulder.
Another reason, is that those folks that have HUNDREDS of dollars in Easy tools sitting on their tool rack are going to defend their turf. I get the same resistance when I tell people I NEVER use chucks.
I have also seen strong defense from those who have saved hundreds of dollars by making their own tools by fastening flat carbide cutters to steel bars.
More power to them, but if that was my only option I might take up basket weaving instead.
I don't think most chuck advocates defend their use due to the investment, but for other reasons. Of course, the choice to use a chuck or not may depend a lot on the type of turning done. I personally would be less efficient mounting and turning some of my favorite things without using a chuck.
I think that chucks allow you to work faster and more efficiently than face plates. I agree that face plates, used properly are more secure and the right choice when pieces get really large, but everything else works so much slower.
I've actually gotten to the point where I own three chucks and try to keep the jaws I am likely to use on them to be more efficient, but I still have 2 other sets in drawers. Someday, I will have one chuck with one set of jaws for every set of jaws I own, and the world will be perfect :-)
I can change jaws in about the same amount of time it takes to sink 8 screws in a faceplate...
But Lyle, not all turning and turners are.........
JamieDonaldson
..... determined to turn faster, longer, bigger, etc. because chucks add utility to the process. Chucks are very sufficient and safe when used properly, and faceplates don't have any advantage in such situations.
>>>Someday, I will have one chuck with one set of jaws for every set of jaws I own,
>>>and the world will be perfect :-)
Wow, you have enlightened me. The world must be better than perfect now! :-) At last count I have 13 or 14 chucks and change jaws once every year or two. (Anyone need a set of std 50mm Teknatool jaws? I seem to have some spares...)
I find it useful to have several chucks with the same jaws in the sizes I use the most often. This lets me keep partially finished projects mounted while I work on something else (or another piece of the same project.) This really helps if you are ADHD (or AADHHHDD...)
Steve, you know me and my methods. At your next turning club meeting take a poll. Ask how many people have knocked a piece out of kilter-off axis with a chuck, or even knocked a piece out of a chuck?? End of argument.
I use chucks for 99% of my turnings. Why, because they are so versatile and quick. I have 5 with different jaws and I have who knows how many home made adaptors for those chucks and jaws. I made a set the other day to reverse turn larger square mirrors. Don't know how I would do that with a faceplate.
Yes I've knocked a bowl or two out of a chuck, but I've also had screws come out of hollow vessels over the years using faceplates.
So there is definitely a place for both. Turn big stuff, faceplate. Turn small odd things, chucks.
...just that I disagree about one being "better" than the other.
I would never trust a tenon on a really large piece of wood from shearing off under its own weight. I'd 100% use a face plate in that situation...but probably only that situation?
I just get much more done, more quickly with a chuck. And I always start between centers, so I always have a center mark in my tenon, making reversing easy peasy...
Wanna trade me all your chucks for all of my face plates?
