using CA glue for a glossy finish

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Dave Paine

I have not used CA as a finish, only to fill cracks. I have watched videos and a demonstration where CA was applied to pens as a finish.

I have used accelerator after applying the CA. I have a pump style container and an aerosol container. The fellow selling the aerosol claimed it would not cause white spots in the CA. He claimed the pump style can pull in moisture when the button is released and the moisture causes the white spots.

If you allow the CA to cure without accelerator, it should prevent the white spot potential problem.

The CA will give a much better glossy shine if sanded with very fine abrasive like the micro mesh pads then buffed with tripoli.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Dick Coers

For pens, I use medium CA. I previously used accelerator between coats, but then a lot of people started getting crazing cracks. So now I just do something else for a few minutes while the CA stinks away while setting. I sure wouldn't want to finish anything of size bigger than a bottle stopper. When that stuff kicks, it's instantly dry. Even if you are still on it with a paper towel or not. I also detest the smell and steam or whatever comes off that stuff if you do use an accelerator. Plus the real possibility of gluing the paper towel to my finger! Not a favorite finish.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Warren White

You will get a lot of feelings about CA finish; but personally that is all I use for my pens and other small wood turnings.

After having some issues with another brand, 2P-10 is the only CA I use. A couple of coats of thin, followed with multiple (6-9) coats of medium. I use accelerant (NCF Quick aerosol) after each coat. Two or three VERY short bursts. Feel the pen with your finger after you apply the accelerant; there will not be any 'drag' if the CA is dry.

The key is to put just a dot of CA on the paper which has been folded to a long, 1/2 inch wide strip (I don't use home use paper towels), and apply it rapidly back and forth with the lathe on slow speed. I ALWAYS use dust collection to avoid the smell and irritation of the CA.

After the last coat, clean with DNA, then sand with 400 to make sure you have an even coat; sand with the lathe on slow, then stop the lathe and sand laterally; watch for shiny spots that indicate you don't have an evenly distributed and sanded surface; wet sand with micro mesh through all the grits.

As I said, you will get a lot of strong opinions on this, but what I have briefly outlined is what I have done, and I am very happy with the result.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

David Walser

I use the method taught by one of the demonstrators at the AAW symposium when it was here in Phoenix. The entire demonstration was on using CA as a finish. With his method, it's possible to use CA as the finish on larger items, such as bowls. I've not done that because I prefer other finishes for such items. But, it is possible to coat just about anything you can turn on the lathe with CA if you want to.

The method is to make several light coats with thin CA. After each 4th or 5th coat, mist the object with accelerator. That is, wipe on the 5th coat and let it set for 10 - 15 seconds, then, with the lathe still spinning slowly, give the object two or three shots of accelerator from about 2' away. You don't want large droplets of accelerator on the surface of your turning -- just a light mist or fog surrounding it. Then, after another 10 - 15 seconds, apply the next 4 or 5 coats. It should take 10 - 15 coats of thin CA to finish a project. The entire process takes about 5 minutes. It takes another 5 minutes or so to wet sand the CA to get the smooth, high-gloss finish many desire for their pens.

The reason for using the accelerator is you don't want a thick coat of CA that's only cured on the surface. The CA finish can sag or crack if it's not cured all the way through. You can use medium CA, but you'll need to use accelerator between every other coat to avoid having part of the finish uncured.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Geoff Whaling

CA looks pretty good as a durable finish however I prefer not to use CA as a finish as I react badly to the fumes. Good advice not to breathe the stuff. The technique I use is very similar to as David describes it, but I use a piece of plastic packing foam as the applicator (thin polyethelene foam?? electronics packaging) & wear nitrile gloves and keep acetone handy (within reach) ;-) We constantly remind a mate who managed to glue himself to a turning during a demo and required our asssistance :-)

I have occasionally had some epic failures of CA glue finishes when assembling pen kits with Celtic knot blanks. Seems the quality assurance on the sizing of components may be the real cause but the end result of cracked finish and blank was the same. CA does not appear to be as tolerant as other finishes to minor sizing issues. I have also seen Sierra pens in use with chips around the nib end of the blank.

You definitely will get a wide range of opinions as all CA glues / finishes are not equal - many variations of the product. Then factor in the environmental conditions, particularly the moisture in the atmosphere, temperature, the wood itself, and then the many possible methods of application.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

John K Jordan

I use CA finish on pens, well, when I actually make pens (rarely). I use the method I learned years ago from a guy who used it on many things he sold.

Put a drop of oil on a small piece of cloth or paper shop towel. Put a glob of medium CA behind the oil, apply evenly to the wood. Turn the lathe to high speed and move the cloth/paper back and forth until the glue is set (a few seconds). Sand (400 or finer) and repeat. I usually use 4-5 coats. No accelerator. Never had a failure.

JKJ

between coats, BUT

GaryG in MD

...BUT I started getting problems with it cracking afterwards -- from immediately to hours or days later.

So I have quit using it.

I watched Barry Gross and Kurt Hertzog both do it in person, as well as watching a lot of videos, and my methods were the same as theirs (I tried 'em all), and my first pens worked fine, but later not, so I'm wondering if the aging of the bottle had something to do with it.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Bill Blasic

That would have been Alan Trout doing the CA glue finishing in Phoenix. Alan does a great demo on CA finishing and in my estimation he is the best there is at CA finishing.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

Mike Stafford

I also use an oil with my CA finish. I prefer boiled linseed oil and use this method which I learned from someone else. I do not recall who first came up with this method but I believe it was someone on one of the pen forums.

I would recommend wearing a rubber or surgical glove during the CA application phase. It’s easier to take off a rubber glove and throw it away than to clean CA from your hands. Here is how to prepare the application pads. Fold a paper towel in half and fold it in half again the other way. Keep folding in half (in the same direction) until you have a pad of paper towel approx. 6” long and 1” or so wide. The end of this pad will be your BLO applicator. It is handy to make up a couple of these pads prior to starting. I have a basket full of these pads ready all the time. Have separate paper towels available for wipe down between applications to remove excess BLO.

Be sure to wear safety glasses or goggles to prevent CA from flying into your eyes.

1. Turn your blanks as you normally would but do not use any sanding sealer unless you are turning soft punky wood.

2. After turning sand/polish with successively finer grits to obtain the smoothest finish possible. The wood should have a very high gloss before applying the BLO/CA finish.

3. When satisfied with the sanding/polishing put on surgical gloves, remove the lid to the BLO container and saturate the end of one of the application pads with BLO.

4. With the lathe at turning speed, apply BLO to the surface of one of the blanks and completely cover it with BLO. This will bring out the grain of the wood and prepare the surface for CA application.

5. With the application pad still in contact with the blank and moving steadily from end to end of the blank, start applying CA to the junction between the applicator pad and the blank. Continue movement back and forth on the blank while applying the CA.

6. Apply CA in a steady flow through 2 or 3 end to end passes on the blank maintaining full contact with the BLO applicator pad.

7. Continue the end-to-end passes with the pad until no more “BLO/CA ripples” are observed on the blank.

8. Remove the pad from the blank, cut off the used end of the pad, saturate a new section of the pad and repeat steps 4 through 7 on the other blank if doing pens.

9. Use a paper towel to burnish both blanks and remove any excess BLO.

10. Re-polish both blanks with micromesh from 4,000 to 12,000 grit.

11. Examine the blanks and then make a second BLO/CA application by repeating steps 4 through 10.

12. When completely satisfied with the results, add a coat or two of lacquer and/or wax of your choice and then allow the wood to “rest” on the lathe for a few minutes before removing it.

13. Allow pen blanks finished by this method to cool and harden for an hour or so before removing from the mandrel and then allow them to harden over night before assembly.

This procedure is not as daunting as it looks. A single application can be completed (including polishing) in less than 5 minutes. On harder, less porous woods only 1 or 2 applications is usually necessary. On softer or more porous woods, as many as 4 or 5 applications may be required to completely fill the pores and result in a physically flat glass like high gloss finish. The high gloss finish is there after the first application but there may still be visibly open pores that need additional attention.

Avoiding Cracking

David Walser

Some have complained that their CA finishes crack after awhile. I believe there are three primary causes:

1st: With pen blanks and blanks for similar kits, the CA finish will often build up beyond the end of the blank. This leaves a small ring of finish around the circumference of the blank. Since the CA finish, once cured, is basically a tube of plastic, pressing the pen parts onto the blank will crush the ends of the plastic tube -- starting cracks that will grow with time. Avoid this by lightly sanding the ends of the tube to make sure the CA finish is flush with the end of the blank.

2nd: Applying too thick a coat of CA will result in cracks over time. The surface of the CA will cure while below the surface the CA hasn't cured. This allows the CA to flex more than it should, resulting in cracks. To avoid this, apply thin coats and use accelerator between coats as described above.

3rd: For larger pieces (bowls, platters, etc.), I fear CA finish is not flexible enough to allow for much wood movement. Again, a CA finish is basically encasing the object in a thin coat of plastic. While that plastic has some give in it, I doubt that it is flexible enough to cope with a lot of movement. The larger the item, the greater the risk that the finish will eventually crack.

Note: The first two points were shared with me by those I consider to be experts in CA finishing. The 3rd point is entirely my own. While it makes sense to me, ...

Re: Avoiding Cracking

John K Jordan

I was told the use of accelerator can make CA brittle. I don't have any independent laboratory test results confirming this.

Because of this I don't use accelerator on anything except for things I don't care much about.

JKJ

Re: Avoiding Cracking

John C Lucas

Accelorator does make it brittle to impact. Ive proven that many time. However i don't know how it affects CA as a finish. Also don't know how you would test it.

Guilio Marcolongo's demo & Season Variations

Geoff Whaling

Mike & David's responses pretty much mirror my own experience. Good tips on sanding the ends of blanks and to prevent glue creep into the tube. Seperating the CA finish from the mandrel bushes / cones is another area that requires attention to detail.

In North Queensland's dry tropics we get quite low humidity in winter, and very high humidity here in the summer months so no accelerator generally required in summer. This year we have had almost no wet season through summer.

Seasonally this requires two modified processes for CA finishing, one for summer, one for winter. The polyethelyne pad works quite well in summer, however the BLO on the folded paper towel process does not work so well with the CA brand I use. The BLO process does work in winter here.

I allow the CA to fully cure with a light misting of NCF accelerator when required. We also experience some issues with timbers that have naturally high oil contents and other extractives that seem to inhibit / modify the curring of CA & polyurethane finishes. Both issues usually means run a few trial blanks to see how the process works if I am dubious about the end result.

Guilio Marcolongo (Aussie demonstrator) has a very simple and very good process for applying CA finishes to his offset lidded boxes. I have two with a flawless finish on them (Dead Finish and South African Blackwood). Guilio's process on Gidgee & Dead Finish is so simple that it is almost unbelievable - no sanding to the finish & no buffing!

Walnut Oil for bowls works very well

Ken Vaughan

I do not keep BLO in the shop, but do have walnut oil for bowl finishes (not the cooking oil kind).

It works very well with less yellow.

no acelerator

Jorge Castaneda

nevr done it, but have a friend in Spain that makes lots of pens and with a rag wipes the CA, leaves the pen rotating and goes back to it in 10, 15 minutes and wipes it again and again, the result is very bright, sometimes he uses a 0000 steel wool lightly and the a paper towel, it gives a nice soft glow.

The reason for no acelerator is becaus it foams and ruins the finish.

Re: no acelerator

eliot feldman

There is no foaming when stuff is used sparingly.

What about the white stuff?

Tony - Memphis

Every time I use the accel., I get that white crust!

Re: What about the white stuff?

Dave Paine

I was at a demonstration at a wood working show. The demonstrator said that the white is caused by moisture in the accelerator from the pump sucking in air. He sold aerosol cans of accelerator which he claimed would not cause the white effect.

Sometimes applying too much accelerator seems to also cause the white effect.

Re: What about the white stuff?

john lucas

Usually when I get white it's because I use too much. Used sparingly I seldom get white but then I don't do CA finishes. I do however do a lot of patching which is probably similar.

Thanks!

Tony - Memphis

Hmmm, maybe I'll try an aerosol and be a little more sparing and see how that works. Thanks.

I don't use it as a finish - mainly for oopsies and such. And the occasional bloodletting. It sure comes in handy for all sorts of things though. I recently tried the Mercury brand and realy like it so far.

Tony

Re: Walnut Oil for bowls works very well

eliot feldman

I have been under the impression that walnut oil IS always the cooking oil type. So there's walnut oil for us wood types? Does it combine with oxygen and dry out eventually?

Re: Walnut Oil for bowls works very well

Ken Vaughan

I have two brands of Woodturning walnut oil. Both dry to a soft finish.

One is Mike Mahoney's brand. This is reportedly made with hulls and has the allergens removed in the processing .

Doctors Workshop is the other brand. Mike Meredith makes several related turning finishing products including an excellent friction polish labeled for pens, but I mostly use it for other items.

Either of these walnut oil products for turned bowls works just fine with CA for a pen finish instead of boiled linseed oil.

Re: Walnut Oil for bowls works very well

Jim Barbour

I've used walnut oil for something like 20 years and have made my own walnut oil-beeswax-carnauba combination for nearly that long. It seems to me that when walnut oil is refined, the process removes the natural driers from the oil so that it will (almost) never set. In a cooking or salad oil this is a good thing, in a finish, not so much.

I have found that if I buy filtered, unrefined walnut oil it will set nicely, and fairly quickly (36 hrs or so in most cases to fully set). The downside is that the refined is roughly $25 a gallon while the unrefined (which is also usually organic) is nearly $120 a gallon.

Re: using CA glue for a glossy finish

hugh widdup

I tried this method and was very pleased with the results thanks for sharing!