problem with Wood River collet chucks

Re: problem with Wood River collet chucks

john Lucas

The way many collets work is you have a threaded rod that pulls them in tight. You loosen the big knob that tightens the threaded rod and then hit it with a mallet to knock the collets loose. At least that's the way all the various collets that I use on my metal lathe or wood lathe work. I don't think it's a design flaw unless I'm reading you wrong.

Re: problem with Wood River collet chucks

john lucas

Sorry, I looked up the chuck and it works differently than standard collets. Can you tap on them to loosen them. When I chuck up router bits after I loosen the locking collar I have to tap on them slightly to get them to come loose.

I thought those pulled the collet out with the nut

Dick Coers

like a router collet. Did they have a snap in feature into the nut that you were not aware of? I see they have the recess under the head. You snap them into the nut, then thread it on. Reverse out the nut until it grabs the head and it pulls the collet off the taper. At least that's the way they should work. Not sure that model has that feature.

ER style collets

Ken Vaughan

Eliot

Those are ER style collects. The collet is snapped into the retaining ring before the retaining ring is threaded onto the body of the Chuck. Without the snap in step they can be difficult to remove.

When looking at Woodriver several years back, the collects were not a standard ER series..

The ones sold by CUSA and others are interchangeable ER series. I use ER 32 collects quite a bit.

Wood River collets do not look like ER32 

Dave Paine

I do not have the Wood River collets, but from the pictures the collets do not look like standard ER32. They are longer, not as much taper.

As others mentioned ER32 collets snap into the locking ring. If the Wood River collets do not snap into the locking ring I can imagine the slight taper may not want to come loose without a locking bar.

The Wood River set picture from their site.

The Craft Supply set which is standard ER32, picture from their site.

Re: Wood River collets do not look like ER32

Don Evans

What you guys are referring to is called "self ejecting collets" they are pulled loose when the nut is being removed.

I swore off "WoodRiver" brand several years ago especially anything with a cutting edge on it!

Don

Re: problem with Wood River collet chucks

Don Orr

I don't have that set but I sure hope it is threaded for a draw bar and you use one to hold that MT into the spindle.

Not a Woodriver fan myself either.

Confirmed, self ejecting, but...

Dick Coers

After reading more posts, my memory kicked in. I went to my drawer of misfit "toys" and I was right. I have that set, but purchased before the Woodriver marketing started. It is self ejecting, but not a standard design inside the nut. You don't snap in the collet, you tip it slightly sideways and engage an off center/partial ring. You can insert a collet into the holder and tighten the nut. It will hold the collet in, but not self eject. If you insert the collet into the nut, then thread that assembly into the holder, it will self eject. There is a major difference in the appearance if you don't do it correctly. Properly done, the collet is flush with the face of the nut. Done incorrectly, the collet is inset about 3/8" and difficult to remove after taking off the nut. The MT shaft is threaded for a retention rod. It works just fine, it's just been years since I turned anything with a small tenon on it.

Re: Confirmed, self ejecting, but...

Roger Chandler

I want to personally say thank you to Elliot for posting this....I have the same collet set and had the same problem!

I want to especially thank Dick Coers for his information here....I went out to the shop/studio, and looked at my set, and it is exactly as he stated and showed in his pics, and it works like a charm! The instructions did not mention this, and I don't seem to find mine, and I usually keep everything together and am not sure this set had any? I bought mine in store, an off the shelf display model, that had no wrapper on the outside, and I guess mine was missing the instruction sheet, if it had one.

Dick....thanks brother, you made a problem go away, and helped me to properly use this collet set!

Run out issues???

Geoff Whaling

I have been using ER25 & ER32 collet chucks since Enzo at Vermec introduced them (2006?) to his product line.

With ER collet systems, if the collets are not seated into the collet nut correctly you will experience run out issues.

Well before that (2003) I was using the ER collets I was using the MT2 Collet system that Teknatool / Nova had on their small Mercury lathe. I used it in both the tail stock & headstock to hold tools and work pieces, however its main disadvantage was that the collets were only available in 4 or 5 sizes.

The Nova MT2 system used a plain twin taper system with out a self ejecting nut design. It could bind at times however simply removing the collet nut and lightly tapping with a soft blow hammer would coax the collets out. Experiencing the issues with MT2 collets guided me to look for a better solution i.e. ER collet systems.

Photo of Nova MT2 collet in the standard Mercury tailstock without the collet nut fitted. I have the same design incorporated into my Vicmarc VL150 lathe tailstock quill.

Re: Run out issues??? *LINK*

David Walser

I have two different sets of collet chucks: The Apprentice Collet Chuck 7 Piece Set from Craft Supplies USA and a set of 2 Morse Taper collets from Little Machine Shop (see link below). I like and use both sets regularly. The Apprentice Collet Chuck is quick to set up. I prefer it when holding something in the headstock. (I also use the 2MT set in the headstock, but I prefer not having to use a drawbar.)

The 2MT set is great for holding drill bits in the tailstock. Collets are more accurate than a Jacobs chuck and take up less room.


Collet Set, 2MT, Set of 7

Re: Confirmed, self ejecting, but...

eliot feldman

You're certainly welcome!

I have taken my set back where I purchased it. There were no instructions with the set I had. I don't remember the collets snapping into anything; I recall that they were simply inserted into the body of the tool and then squeezed tight by the outer screw nut. They certainly didn't come out as the nut was unscrewed.

I ordered a new, different, set from littlemachineshop.com. These are based on a draw bar feature.

Re: Confirmed, self ejecting, but...

Roger Chandler

Eliot, I was using mine wrong......Dick Coers gave the correct information when he spoke of tilting the collett to one side and letting the concentric circle on the inside of the nut seat into the recess on the edge of the collett itself.

When I did use mine incorrectly, it did just as Dick mentions, in that the face of the collett would be inside the nut a bit, but when seated correctly in the concentric ring, the nut goes all the way on, and the face of the collet sits flush with the outside of the nut. Seating it correctly also allows for the collet to self eject when the nut is unscrewed, without having to hammer it off, or use a knock out rod.

Much appreciation to Dick for helping with this.....it allows me to use the collet set correctly......I do agree that they should put instructions with these sets!!!

MT2 vs Nova Collets

Geoff Whaling

David, The Nova system uses a collet nut however the tail stock or head stock MT becomes the collet body.



I would not recommend turners use the standard MT2 collets as shown in your link for two reasons -

they require a taper drill drift key to eject them and most lathes tail stock designs don't have room for a milled drift key slot. (a draw bar can be used as a knockout bar)

they also require a draw bar if used as a work holding chuck unsupported for items like finials where there is insufficient tail stock pressure to keep them in the MT2. (same applies to Jacobs chucks as work holding chucks)

Standard MT2 collets will work on lathes but they are far from an ideal solution, far better to use a collet body & nut design like the ER collet system from Beal or Vermec. Much safer options, and far easier to use. Biggest disadvantage most lathes do not have threaded tail stock quills for accessories.

Re: MT2 vs Nova Collets

David Walser

It is not without fear and trepidation that I rise to disagree with my learned friend, Geoff Whaling. I have reason to fear because the number of turning related topics upon which I might know more than Geoff are few in number -- and that's only if you count as topics the peculiarities of my lathe in my shop. (A place, by the way, Geoff has never visited, although he would be most welcome.)

However, on the topic of using MT2 collets, I will venture a mild disagreement. I've been using the collets I linked to (above) for close to a decade and have come to rely on them for a number of tasks. I only recently acquired an ER collet body & nut design system. As I mentioned, I prefer it to the MT2 collets for a number of tasks. But, if I could only keep one collet system, it would be the MT2 collets.

If I understand him correctly, Geoff has two chief complaints about MT2 collets. The 1st is a safety issue when using the collet in the headstock and the 2nd is a matter of ease of use. I disagree on the safety question because I always use a drawbar with MT2 collets. MT2 collets are unsafe to use without a drawbar, but that doesn't make them unsafe any more than a router (or any tool) can be unsafe if used improperly.

As to ease of use, I tend to agree with Geoff. If I'm only using the collet for one set up, my Apprentice Collet Chuck is easier to use. However, if I'm turning several items with the same set up, I tend to prefer the MT2 collets. For example, say I'm turning several birdhouse ornaments and I want to turn a few dozen perches. I can mount a 4" length of 1/8" diameter dowel in my MT2 collet (with most of the dowel inside the collet), snug the collet up with the drawbar, and turn and part off the 1st perch. For the 2nd perch, I simply loosen the drawbar, tap the end of the drawbar to loosen the collet (if necessary), pull some more dowel out, and tighten the collet back up. It's very quick and the extra bulk of the much larger ER collet body chucks would be unwelcome.

Another example is where I'm going to drill stepped holes into a blank mounted in the headstock using Forstner bits. A pepper mill blank would be a good example. All my Forstner bits have a 3/8" shank and fit nicely in a 3/8" MT2 collet mounted in the tailstock. A couple of turns on the drawbar's handle allows me to quickly swap in and out the bits I'm using. Fast, secure, and accurate.

MT2 collets are viable

Geoff Whaling

David, no arguments here. Nothing wrong with MT2 collets when used correctly, just that there are better & more efficient options imo. However the MT2 collets win on minimal capital outlay if a turner only wants one or two collet sizes.

Your task of drilling stepped holes in pepper mill bodies is an example of a situation where the MT2 collets with a draw bar are an excellent choiceas most lathes do not have a thread on the tailstock quill. Efficient and safe when used with a draw bar and much safer than a Jacobs chuck (with both a Jacobs taper & a MT2 taper) with out a drawbar.

The dedicated ER collet body also offers a much wider range of clamping sizes as I regularly hold 19-20 mm Celtic knot pen blanks for drilling - no MT2 collets available in those sizes, you have to go to MT3 to get 3/4" or 18 mm.

It tends to get exciting when a turner panics after they jamb a forstner bit in a pepper mill blank then the MT2 tang comes adrift from the tailstock as they try to extract the bit.

I use the Vermec ER32 & 25 Collet chucks in a similar fashion to how you use the MT2 collets however the hollow Vermec body allows me to slide up to about 16" of stock through the headstock quite safely. I very much prefer the collet clamping nut design that the Vermec chucks use over the Beall and Apprentice designs. Its very quick to hand tighten / loosen and does not normally require any tools.

MT2 or ER style collets also hold small square stock very well, something that a Jacobs chuck is not very efficient with.

Just recently I assisted a turner to remove a MT2 Jacobs chuck apparently left in the tail stock of a lathe he had purchased secondhand. Seems it had been left in there for a number of years. In the end we had to remove the tail stock quill from the lathe to drive the MT2 tang out.