Home Articles Forums Gallery Marketplace Videos

WoodCentral Forums

Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

ADVERTISE HERE - FREE TRIAL

Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

Posts

Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#1

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig 

Dennis in Southern Oregon

John K Jordan started a thread a couple of weeks ago on turning a sphere using a simple method attributed to Soren Berger that involves first turning a cylinder with a length equal to its diameter, then cutting off the corners to form an 8-sided figure. Optionally, one can then turn off the new corners to form a 16-sided figure. The result then can be smoothed out by eye to produce a pretty good sphere. The first three figures illustrate the sequence.

I personally have used this method many times to turn spherical ornaments and spheres that become the bowls of one-piece ladles and spoons, and I find it fast and convenient. (Generally, I stop at the 8-sided figure stage.) Although I have never used a sphere turning jig, I expect that this method is far faster than using a jig if you do not require high accuracy. Furthermore, it strikes me that this method would a time-efficient way of roughing out a sphere before using the jig.

The catch is that in order to make the cuts you first need to determine where to mark and cut. At each stage, you need to mark the piece at a particular distance each side of the existing corners. In the first stage, the required distance is 0.2929 times the diameter of the sphere. In the second stage, the required distance is 0.1077 times the diameter of the sphere. Unfortunately, unless you have a calculator in the shop and a decimal ruler or caliper, this can be challenging.

I would like to offer a simple, fast, no-cost, no-math alternative that anyone can use. The fourth figure is a design graph that will let you measure the desired quantities directly using calipers for spheres up to 4 inches in diameter. The figure is easily drawn, as described below, or can be dragged off onto your desktop and printed. (It will not matter if the figure does not print to the original size, although it may change the size of the largest sphere that can be accommodated.) To use the graph, first set your calipers to the diameter of the sphere. Then, hold the calipers horizontally and move down the graph until they exactly span the distance between the reference line R and the diameter line D. Note this vertical position on the graph. (As a practical matter, taking the nearest ruled line usually is close enough.) Now, for the offset A that is required for the first stage, use your calipers or a strip of paper to measure the distance from the line R to the line A along that same horizontal line and use it mark cut lines on the work piece that distance each side of each of the corners. To obtain the offset B for the second stage do exactly the same, except copy the distance between line R and line B.


To draw a graph for yourself that will accommodate spheres of up to 4 inches diameter, obtain a sheet of quadrille paper (I used ¼” ruled paper, but any will work) and mark a point near the top left of the sheet as shown in the fourth figure and draw a vertical line down to one of the rulings near the bottom of the sheet. This is the reference line R. Then draw a horizontal base line as shown. Now, measuring from the R line along the base line, mark points at 0.431 (7/16), 1.17 (1 -3/16), and 4.0 inches. The fractional measurements shown are close approximations to the actual decimal values for those who do not have decimal rulers. If you need to turn larger spheres you can easily extend the range of the graph. Carefully align a second sheet of quadrille paper with the original piece, offsetting it to the right if necessary and extend the lines R, A, B and D onto the new sheet.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#2

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

Barry Irby

I like it....Thank you for posting it...one question....

How do you establish the height of line "R"? It seems it would be critical. I read and re-read, but am not picking up how to set the exact height of the triangle.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#3

Re:Ellis, can this be added to the article section


Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#4

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

David Walser

Barry -- I don't know how he established the height of line R. However, since the triangle is on 1/4" graph paper, you can simply count the lines to know how long line R should be.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#5

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

John K Jordan

>>In the first stage, the required distance is 0.2929 times the diameter of

>>the sphere. In the second stage, the required distance is 0.1077 times

>>the diameter of the sphere.

Ah ha! Your numbers verified my initial calculation. At first, I used the numbers from the newsletter link someone provided. The numbers for the first two stages were 0.293 and 0.104. I drew diagrams and did the trig and puzzled over the number I got for the second stage, 0.10765. I got this twice but haven't had time to revisit it. Glancing again at the math just now I THINK I know where the 0.104 comes from but I need to verify.

BTW, I do always keep a calculator in the shop. And these days - most people have one in their pocket! I found two good calculator apps for my Android phone, one when I need all the trig functions. (A good conversion app is handy too! And a triangle solver...)

JKJ

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#6

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

john Lucas

Cool I'm going to play with it on my next sphere. I will have to enlarge it because it's going to be larger sphere than what will fit on this page. Should be simple to just draw it over on larger graph paper and simply extend the lines.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#7

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

Dennis in Southern Oregon

The value of R is not critical and is a compromise. Desirably, the angles between R, A, B and D should be fairly small so that any error in determining where the diameter measurement fits on the graph does not translate into large errors in the measurements of A and B. On the other hand, I wanted to be able to accommodate fairly large spheres (4 inch) on a single piece of A-size paper.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#8

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

Dennis in Southern Oregon

John, yeah I was tearing my hair out trying to find out what was wrong with what seemed like a simple calculation. I finally decided that the other results were a typo or an error. They are close enough that I would not matter much. I too have three calculators plus decimal measuring instruments in the shop and use them all the time. (I probably should take my P&E slide rule up there too for backup.) A couple of the replies to your post reminded me that not all wood turners are engineers and led to my looking for a non-technical solution.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#9

Calculations

John K Jordan

>>P&E slide rule

So I'm not the only one with a slide rule or two around?! I like to show them to teenagers who know everything.

JKJ

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#10

Re: Calculations

RCH

I still have my slide rule (aluminum not bamboo) from my days as a prospective undergrad physics-astronomy major.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#11

Re: Calculations

David Walser

My dad is a retired airline pilot. He's been retired 30 years, now. In his flight bag he kept a specialized slide rule for use in navigation, computing remaining fuel range, etc. He liked it because it was quick and never failed for lack of a battery. I doubt today's pilots even know how to use such things.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#12

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

Dennis in Southern Oregon

John, you can do that or use two or more pieces of 8-1/2 x 11 paper and arrange them in some combination of portrait and landscape orientations to cover the whole range of interest, tape them together temporarily, and then draw the graph. You can them take them apart again for easier manipulation and use whichever section fits for any given job. You can get plastic sheet protectors at Staples that will provide durability and will allow temporary marking of positions on the graph when desired. If you want to draw graphs for larger sizes directly, you can use the following end points for lines A and B instead of the values given for 4-inch spheres:

8-inch sphere A=2.34 (2-11/32) B=0.861 (7/8)

10-inch sphere A=2.93 (2-15/16) B= 1.077 (1-1/16)

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#13

I still have my Post Versalog


Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#14

nomogram

GaryG in MD

Dennis, Since you're in IEEE and old enough to have a slide rule, I'm betting you know that what you have drawn is called a nomogram. These things were used very commonly in days gone by, and you have proven their utility once again. ...GG

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#15

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: nomogram

Dennis in Southern Oregon

I guess you are right Gary. I usually think of a nomogram as a chart that you enter with one or more numbers and obtain another number. Here, we are entering a physical size and obtaining other physical sizes. BTW, I wore out one P&E aluminum sliderule and nearly a second in engineering school.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#16

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig 

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Here is a further extension of the graph onto a second sheet. When I drag it off onto my desktop and print it, the max usable diameter is about 7 inches.


Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#17

Re: Calculations

John K Jordan

>>...In his flight bag he kept a specialized slide rule for use in navigation,

>>computing remaining fuel range, etc....

Called a flight computer, these are glorified circular slide rules with a big slide for vector corrections from the wind. The problem I remember is there was no way to get the actual wind speed and direction, especially thousands of feet off the ground so it was kind of useless except for very rough estimates. You sure needed to be good with it to pass the test!

I still have an aluminum one like the picture here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E6B

You can buy these today. I understand they are still required in training but I've been away from this.

JKJ

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#18

Re: Calculations

John Veerkamp

I still have several and recently gave my first big one From 1957 to my recent graduate engineer grandson. He really appreciated it.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#19

Re: Calculations

John K Jordan

How many people remember the giant teaching slide rules hanging on the wall at the front of classrooms?!

Remember the slide rule tie clip? How about the circular slide rule wrist watch?

JKJ

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#20

Re: Calculations

Jorge Castaneda

In the service we had a circular one, called a "plotter" with a bunch of uses in navigation.

I still have a couple 10" and 3 - 7" One of them with log - log remember those?

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#21

Another approach???????

Barry Irby

Would it work to draw a circle the size of the sphere and then set up some tangents to the circle and plot how to cut the tangents? I have not tried this yet, but this seems like a drafting problem. Any thoughts?

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#22

Re: Another approach???????

John K Jordan

I think that is basically what this approach is doing. The lines marked on the cylinder at first define the corners such that a flat cut between the lines create a tangent to the circle, as do the second set of lines. In the first stage you create eight tangents (if you count the supporting wood as one) then 16 tangents for the second stage.

You could define successive tangents for a really big sphere but Mr. Berger's technique of rounding off the corners after stage two seems to work well, at least for up to 2-1/2".

Of course, I'm a big expert in this now, having done a total of one sphere of one size. :-)

JKJ

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#23

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Re: Another approach???????

Dennis in Southern Oregon

I agree with John that going to 32-sided approximations or higher probably would not be useful for anything but very large spheres. Without actually doing the calculations, I can tell that the size of the offset from the corners needed to go from 16-sided to 32-sided figures will be much smaller than the offset B shown in my graph. Therefore, measuring error and transfer error will be a limiting factor except for large spheres. That said, if anyone is interested, I will be happy to calculate the offset value (call it C) needed for the 32-sided approximation.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#24

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

don stephan

Apologies for coming on this thread late. What is the diameter of the two ends at each stage? It is marked on the right end of the stock and presumably the chuck end is parted down to that diameter.

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

#25

Re: Simple aid for turning spheres without a jig

John K Jordan

Don,

Take a look at Soren Berger's video. The first diameter on the ends is the the distance between the first two lines. This should make eight equal flats when viewed in side or top profile. Soren shows this starting at about 2:15 in his video, using his calipers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4s5LziiS08

JKJ