green wood bowl dilema

Re: green wood bowl dilema

Brad Vietje

I hear ya, John!

I've seen a number of mildly annoying to deeply disturbing trends over the past 20+ years, which probably just means that I'm a cantankerous, over-the-hill, old-fashioned, old fart.

BUT:

Have you noticed how fast everything seems to move? TV screens are an annoying miss-mash of moving graphics, and apparently we can't be content to watch and hear the news -- there has to be a scrolling bar of text at the bottom with sports scores, stock market reports, etc... plus a box somewhere giving us live information about something else, and all manner of stupid graphics floating around the background -- moving, moving, ever moving! (If you have more than a little spritz of ADD/ADHD, as I do, this can be extremely distracting. We THINK we can multi-task (and the 22-year-olds that work at TV studios are certain that's true), but in truth, we can't. Not just the over-50 crowd, but studies have shown that students at Harvard, Stanford, Princeton and Cal-Tech can't either!

If we look around us at a park, there are a few kids running about, but most people are playing with their ^#%#& phones! A table of teens at a pizza joint involves very little talking, giggling or horse-play these days, as nobody talks, they just play incessantly with these hand-held (harbingers of doom) ahem, devices. I'd rather have a bunch of noisy jerks with root beer spouting out their noses -- at least they'd be interacting with real humans.

I think within a generation we've come to expect immediate gratification and more and more people have no patience at all. If this trend continues, it will be almost impossible to keep traditional hand work alive.

Thank goodness that if you look for it, there's a counter-trend afoot, as well. Many young people are taking to slow food, organic agriculture, purpose-built homes and structures -- working with their hands. Maybe not so apparent in cities, but here in the sticks we are seeing a rebirth of small farms, orchards and farmers markets, of people keeping chickens, raising food along with children. Even the "Maker Space" and hacking movements help develop creativity and building skills -- if only they weren't so focused on robotics and computers. We need people who can make good shovels, shoes, houses and machinery, too.

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: green wood bowl dilema

john Lucas

Brad one of my friends said if somehow all cell phones were killed the world would end because kids don't even know how to meet each other and procreate. I had to laugh but when you think about it, it's scary.

Re: green wood bowl dilema

Barry L Elder

Agreed! Everyone is supposed to go to college and nobody is supposed to pay for it! It doesn't matter if they can't read and write much less do addition and subtraction and division. Living their lives on someone else's instructions and ideas with no goal and no future!

It took me several years to determine that I couldn't order bowl blanks from the Northern climes due to the fact that they were shipped green regardless of what the seller claimed. So, getting tired of ruined bowl blanks, I turned local tropical wood blanks rough and put them in 20# paper bags with the balance in wood chips. In a year I had over 50 dry and drying blanks by weighing them every so often and when they quit losing weight, they were ready for turning. Slow and steady is much better than instant gratification; there will always be a need for burger flippers, ditch diggers, and such.

Re: green wood bowl dilema

John K Jordan

>We THINK we can multi-task but in truth, we can't.

What most call multi-tasking is simply divided attention. This at best lowers efficiency and at worst, kills with automobiles. I'm seriously ADHDDHHDD and no, I don't multi-task but I do jump from thing to thing and somehow get a huge amount done! My flight instructor used methods that taught how to handle "task loading" - at times many extremely important things all need to be done at the same time, the trick being in prioritizing and quickly dividing slices of attention.

I also seem to see more turners that don't want to take the time and effort to do detail work or even quality finishing. I look at show-and-tell pieces and see horrible (in my opinion) circular scratches, undulating surfaces inside bowls, and shameful tearout. All this can be done right with just a little care!

But I do see the point for some people - they just want to make chips fly and make something, they don't much care about either the form or finish. Not what I want to do, but there is nothing wrong with that. Far better than sitting on the couch!

I once did a demo on my little handbell ornaments (which are extremely popular with gift recipients!) One turner came to the shop soon after to visit and play and get some dogwood :-) and I asked him if he tried making a bell. No, too "futzy", which he meant needed too much patience and attention to detail. Not interested! Yikes, I'm with the group that enjoys the process and the result of putting in some effort.

Ironically, turning is so inherently perfect for instant gratification! Even if it takes two days to finish a piece, compare that to the time it takes to make a roll-top desk or even a coffee table. I'm pretty sure it was on WoodCentral years ago that someone made the comment he had a show that weekend and needed more pieces so he made a couple of things the day before - we all laughed together when he pointed out how that would have worked out for a furniture maker!!

I too get discouraged sometimes when I think of the masses of people seemingly unwilling to make the effort to learn or create something. But then, like mentioned, I run into young people that are so excited to learn about beekeeping, come back for a second and third woodturning lesson, want to learn how to weld or build a shed or shear a llama or rebuild a carburetor. There is hope! But unfortunately, we see even a wider division between those who realize it's worth the effort to learn to do and make and fix and grow things, and those who always take the easy way. Which segment is more likely to have successful careers and be able to afford and do the rewarding things?

Of course, it is up to parents to direct interests at an early age. This cartoon from 10 years ago hit me after meeting kids that did little else (might be hard to read so I made a closeup):

JKJ

Re: green wood bowl dilema

Barry Irby

I stopped on the side of the road where some State Highway people were working and asked for some short logs (bowl blanks). They looked at me like I was a wild man and quickly put them in my car to get rid of me. There's lots of free wood fro the asking, You just have to ask and be patient.

My son works at a company that sells turf supplies to golf courses. They are concerned that young people are not playing golf, except on hand held devices. Heard a similar report on NPR today.

I told my Granddaughter (who is 5) we could make something in my shop. She asked Why?

My son won't take the time to brine a turkey.

He's bevel rubbing

john Lucas

got a call from my friend this afternoon and he took the bowl back that he brought to show me and he used the Hercules in bevel rubbing mode to clean up the tear out. Can't wait to see it tomorrow night. Maybe, just maybe, I rubbed off on him.

Re: green wood bowl dilema

Charlie Anderson

Breakfast cereal sales are down because millennials don't want to dirty a dish and a spoon!

I'm 66, I have a cold that would kill a millennial

You're all a bunch of slackers

Mike Potts

Include me in the bunch, Yes I sit around and complain about my children and grandchildrens generations. But as much as I like to think I've always been a hard worker, not afraid to get my hands dirty or work up a sweat, if you could asked my Dad or Granddad I'm sure they would tell you what a slacker I was. So it goes from generation to generation for as long as man has been on this earth.

"In the year 5555

Your arms are hanging limp at your sides

Your legs got nothing to do

Some machine is doing that for you"

Re: green wood bowl dilema

Keith Tompkins

Perfect John! Just hand them the EZ tools...no sharpening, no waiting time, no learning curve; the perfect student and new turner.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

John K Jordan

How right you are!! If the power goes off I know I would be useless.

I have never even used a pole lathe or sharpened on a hand-cranked grinder, never forged a hammer. I don't know how to boil linseed oil. I've never cleared a lot with an axe or even plowed with a mule. Never brought home dinner with a spear.

I have hauled water from the river for washing and hung laundry on a line with wooden clothespins. Maybe I could learn.

JKJ

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

john Lucas

I've turned on a pole lathe. Sharpened by hand with stone. Drug wood out of the forest using a packpack frame. Cut the wood with a bow saw,split it with an ax. I have a side ax, Brace and bit, hand planes, spoke shave, drawknife, and chisels and know how to use them. I've cut weeds with a sickle and yea used an outhouse and even helped dig the pit for one. Oh and I also shoot muzzleloaders. I'm ready.

Of course I'd rather use my Powermatic lathe, table saw, a real bathroom and hot shower and love shooting my AR15 and Sig 9mm.

Well Dang,,,,,,

Keith Newton

John,,,,, That reads like a job application for someone trying to break into the washwoman trade,,, and I could use one myself, but you failed by being the wrong sex!! ha

Oh, I do love turning, and carving green wood!!!! And for that matter, sawing it. I finally found some time to get out on my Woodmizer yesterday. Got a log loaded on the bed, then spent about half a day trying to get it started. Then spent another half day rebuilding the carburetor. Oh, I'm so glad that I did that. It runs better than it ever has.

Now, I've got 4 more logs to saw today, unless the forecasted storms roll in preventing it.

Re: green wood bowl dilema

William Duffield

Some of us would suggest that the decline in Golf popularity is a good thing.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

William Duffield

I don't have a pole or treadle lathe either, but I think I have all the tools I need to build one.

Except the plans are on my iMac, so I guess I'll be useless too when the lights go out.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

Mike Stafford

Lazarus Long, a recurring character in the books of Robert Heinlein makes the following statement about what should be expected of every person.

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects!"

I have never planned an invasion unless discussing strategy during a football game counts. I have never set a bone. Never was much of a fighter and dying is something I am not ready to comment upon.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

john Lucas

I thought shoveling manure and giving orders was the same thing. OH never mind, that's just in politics.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

John K Jordan

Another quote from the same Heinlein book:

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

--Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love, pg 31

I was reminded of that when a teen girl came to the shop to "make" a present for her friend. I thought she wanted to learn a little about the woodturning like most people who come. Nope, just wanted it done. "Can you be quiet and just do it? All that talk and stuff is annoying."

I sure learned something that day!

JKJ

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

Mike Stafford

Yeah, there is a lot to learn from teenagers.

I wish I knew all that a 16 year old knows.....It sure would help with the problems I am having today.

Re: You're all a bunch of slackers

John K Jordan

I've hung out with teenagers a lot over the years because of the horses and farm and church things and one thing never changes: each generation is POSITIVE they have have an exclusive handle on life, positive they have discovered and understand things their fuddy-duddy parents and grandparents and "old" people in general remain clueless about. And of course if something doesn't work out perfectly, it is always the fault of circumstance or of someone else!

(In case this sounds overly pessimistic I state for the record that the current "crop" of kids, if anything like the rest, will gradually understand what they don't understand and turn out to be wonderful adults. It is our job to be a consistent and patient non-judgemental influence, correcting and encouraging, building on strengths without reacting to nonsense with frustration and belittlement and causing them to turn off completely - a delicate balance but I think it is a lot easier for someone like me than it is for a parent!)

JKJ