Lauren turning spheres

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

Congratulations to your "Bride." Mine is like that as well, to the extent that I had to buy a new lathe when she took over my other one. The new one is set too high for her to use, so that's safe for now.

Okay, about the sphere making tool; details about it, please. I've been wanting one of those for quite a while but haven't been able to justify one. I think I can now. So what kind(s) are recommended? Advantages to each, sizes they will craft, you know, all the good stuff.

Will your bride be bringing you to Quincey?

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Alan Zenreich

Jerry,

Lauren has her own lathe, but this sphere jig is set up for my Nova.

Dick Gerard has worked with just about every sphere tool out there, so he would be the person to compare features.

That said, he and I both ordered Vermec jigs at the AAW symposium in Pittsburgh.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Alan Zenreich

Maybe I have missed something, but what are you referring to about Quincey?

Re: Lauren turning spheres

John C Lucas

I collected info on all the sphere jigs but im still in atlanta. Heading home today . I have used the carter jig and it works well. I think i remember that i prefered tbe Vermac but will bave to look at them to tell you why.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

John,

If you can remember, I'd appreciate you telling me why. The Carter looks to be pretty well built and they do have a reputation of high performance. So, if you have thoughts about one over the other, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Alan Zenreich

The Vermec cutter can be moved forward and *backwards* by turning the lead screw.

Many of the other designs use the screw only to advance the cutter. To move the cutter backwards, you retract the screw, then pull the cutter arm backwards manually on those designs.

Not a big deal one way or the other, but it requires more machining to do it the way Vermec does, and it is appropriate for the very very solid design and manufacture that the Vermec embraces.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

Alan,

Not only did I get confused about what board I was on, the Quincey issue,

but I responded through email and received instruction not to do that. My mistakes. So, here's the information that should clear up whatever waters I muddied.

The show in Quincey, MA is put on by the Segmented Woodturners, a "segment" (excuse the pun) (Or Not) of the AAW. They focus on Segmented Turning, Bowl from a Board, Open Segmented Turnings and the like. Their meeting is styled after what the AAW does. Lots of presenters, gallery displays and venders.

The "Confusion" is that their information is on their own forum; not this one. So, if you have an interest, I can direct you to their site. Otherwise, forget I screwed up, AGAIN!

Thank you for the information on the Sphere Jig. I've looked over what I can find and will take your guidance to heart.

Now, I need to go prepare for the Snow Storm coming on the first full day of spring. Looks like it will be the worst storm we've had this winter too. Go Figure.

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

David Walser

Jerry -- I'm not John, but I did a very close examination of both the Carter and Vermec jigs. The Vermec is more robust. It uses larger bearings and the swing arm is thicker and wider. All the Vermec components (except the cutter and knobs) are made of steel. The Carter is mostly aluminium. The Carter jig uses a series of holes in the swing arm to adjust the size of spheres you can cut. The Vermec uses a slot. This allows the Vermec jig to be closer to the blank for some sized spheres -- which means the cutter arm doesn't need to be extended as far. All of these differences add up to less vibration when using the Vermec jig than with the Carter. In addition, the Vermec jig has a pointer mounted over the pivot point that can be raised up. This makes it very easy to get the jig centered exactly where you want it on the blank.

Bottom line: Both jigs will do the job. The Vermec jig is simply smoother in operation and will last for generations of use.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

John K Jordan

>Okay, about the sphere making tool; details about it,

>please. I've been wanting one of those for quite a while

>but haven't been able to justify one.

Jerry,

I'm not Alan but I have the same jig. I bought it after researching the best I could and comparing comments and pictures of the other jigs. I got the large one to fit the PM3520.

I can say this - it's massive! Extremely well made, sturdy. In my reading some people who had used both the Vermec and Carter said the Carter gave them more vibration. Over all, people were quite happy with the Vermec.

When I wanted to buy, the US distributor was out of stock and would not have them until sometime in April. On the advice of another person, I ordered one directly from Vermec in Australia. Not only did it come in three days, even with international UPS shipping it was about $60 cheaper than the US price due to the favorable exchange rate right now.

JKJ

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

Okay, for Not Alan, and Not John, THANK YOU. Seems like the Vermac is getting more votes. You both pointed to things I need to research concerning it's construction as compared to the Carter. I appreciate the information and will let you know what I decide.

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

john Lucas

Well this will be short since a few others have given great reviews of the Vermec. There are several on the market. Wivamac had one at an AAW symposium that is a nice rig. Well machined but since it's sort of a cantelever design I'm guessing his has a fair amount of chatter.

Chefware kits has one that is less expensive and fits in the tool post. Not in the same league as the others but it does work for smaller spheres and is quite a bit less expensive.

the Carter jig was originally designed by Lindsay but he sold it to Carter and they improved on it. There are 2 things I like about it compared to the Vermec. One is it has a stop collar so if your trying to do matching spheres it's a nice touch. A friend needed some spheres to be matching and dead on so he came over while I had the jig and we made them with about .010" of each other. The other feature i like is the ability to rotate the cutter. That has advantages and disadvantages. Rotating it gives a cleaner cut (handy when your trying to get the spheres within .010" because excess sanding changes the size. The down side is it's directional when you rotate it. It will cut cleaner in one direction than the other. The one thing I didn't like about the jig (and I had the Lindsey not the newer Carter) is that the cutting part of the tool can easily be dropped out of the jig while assembling it. I don't think that will happen on the Vermec.

I did find that the Carter did chatter when you made big cuts but settled down nicely as you start taking finer cuts to fine tune the size.

I hope this helps. I'm pretty beat from all the time spent in the hospital and the drive back home so let me get some sleep and maybe I'll think of more.

My friend Pat Matranga bought the Lindsey jig and loaned it to me to try out. She said she bought it to try and speed up sphere production. It didn't work. She is so good at turning them between cup centers that is just slowed her down try to set up the jig and make adjustments. If you have seen Mike Hosaluck turn a sphere he doesn't even make cup centers. He just turns it round by eye. I watched him turn one in about 5 minutes or so and it was really well done.

So your don't really need a jig. I've never owned one. I don't turn a lot of spheres but will do a few every now and then. If you do a lot then it might pay to buy one. If you do a huge amount then your skills may be such that you don't need one.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

John,

First, I'm glad you are home safe and sound. I hope things are well with your Father. Sounds like he was pretty sick. So I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers (the Rev in Rev Jerry is there for a reason.)

Now, to the Sphere Jig. You seem to favor the Carter system over the Vermac and that's a surprise. But I'll take you at your word. I think those two are the top runners in my estimation anyway, so I'll be looking at them when the dust settles in my bank account.

The thing that may push me to the Carter is the availability of the Vermac, or lack of. I can't find ANYONE that has one in stock! If I can't buy it and I decide I am ready to buy, I guess the Carter will win just because I can't get the Vermac.

I wonder about the "Cups" for turning off the nubs. Guess they could be made. Are the ones Carter sells extra worth the price?

Thanks for your information, and, again, we wish you the very best with your Dad.

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

John K Jordan

> I decide I am ready to buy, I guess the Carter will win just

>because I can't get the Vermac.

Jerry, in case you missed it, you can order the Vermec directly from the maker in Australia. Mine came in three days and was a LOT cheaper that way due to the exchange rate. Send me an email if you want a contact.

JKJ

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Jerry Maske

John,

Didn't miss it but can't find a contact there. My email is,

revjerry@roadrunner.com

If I can order direct from them, that'll be just great. I was watching a video of Captain Ed turning a sphere and he commented about a couple things wrong with the Carter that the Vermac seems to have addressed. I think that's the way I'll go.

Appreciate your help and look forward to your email.

Jerry

Re: Lauren turning spheres

john Lucas

Well I can't really say that I favor the Carter over the Vermac because I have never used the Vermec. From everyone else's response it seems like a very fine machine. One thing missing on the Lindsey that I used was the centering pin. It had sort of an after thought one. The Vermec having the adjustable height pin is a very good idea. It really helps to have the thing lined up properly before you start. That being said the Carter rig seems to have some sort of adjustable centering device. hard to tell exactly what it is from the photo. Perhaps I can find a video showing the set up.

The tilting cutter is nice. It does provide a cleaner cut on problem woods. You do have to tilt it one way to cut to the left and one way to cut to the right. This requires some pretty careful sneaking up on the ridge left from where you stop. It didn't seem to be much of a problem as we were able to do it within a few thousandths. However that being said they both use the same type of cutter and with it held flat (actually tilted down a little) you still get a very decent cut that requires little sanding. I turned some really really punky maple and the tilted cutter did do a better job.

One thing I can't tell from the Vermec. You can swing the whole cutter holder mechanism. With some careful adjustment I was able to turn a sphere only attached at the chuck so virtually the entire sphere was turned. You might be able to do that with the Vermec and it could be you never want to do that. I was just playing to see if we could get more accuracy. In 99% of the cases no one needs that kind of accuracy. My friend did and that's why we played.

I've used the Chefware kits sphere turning jig. it is the least expensive of the jigs and it seems to work. Not as easy as the Carter but it shows that if all you want is a sphere and not worried about the exact size the all work.

I would look at price and availability because I think all of them work with the better ones just being a little easier to line up, you can take bigger cuts initially,and they may produce a more accurate sphere.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Alan Zenreich

On the Vermec, the cutter is tilted slightly downward.

The cutter mount (the vertical column that holds the cutter assembly) can be easily repositioned, both as to the distance from the piece, and to the angle of approach for the cutter arm. This allows for a lot of flexibility in cutting close to the headstock without hitting the chuck with the jig assembly.

In the video I posted, you might see that the arm is configured at an angle to the workpiece. If we wanted to go closer on the chuck side of this sphere, I would have had Lauren adjust the column to present the arm at more of an oblique angle, and extend the arm, which positions the jig farther away from the chuck. For this project, we do not want that, as she will be hollowing the sphere and wants a strong tenon for that process.

As for adjusting the angle of the cutter... although I haven't tried it, and don't find it necessary, there is a screw at the back of the cutter arm that MIGHT allow for tilting the cutter from left to right... but I am not sure if that will work or if some loc-tite or other keying mechanism has been applied for the greatest stability of the cutter arm in the mount..

Vermec sphere jig

David Walser

Above I gave some reasons why I like the Vermec jig. My ONLY complaint are the virtual lack of instructions that come with the jig. Vermec is a family business run by a mechanical engineer. Like many (all?) engineers, he seems to assume that what's obvious to him is obvious to the rest of us, too. So, he probably thinks his very brief instructions are more than enough to tell you all you'd want to know about using his sphere jig.

As I said, the lack of instructions is my only complaint. While the jig is fairly simple in concept, detailed instructions would have saved me a lot of trial and error learning. I'm sure there are still things I've not figured out. For example, the jig can be used to hollow a sphere. (Imagine a spherical box with a slip-fit lid.) That's something I've not tried yet, but it's on my list of things to do when I get the time.

Hollowing a sphere with a Vermec jig

John K Jordan

>I'm sure there are still things I've not figured out.

>For example, the jig can be used to hollow a sphere.

When I asked Vermec about instruction, they pointed me to a video.

I know several have asked about hollowing instructions, including me. They told me a hollowing video was in the works. I think a better instruction sheet would be nice to get started in general. Fortunately, there are some videos.

BTW, when discussed on another forum, Geoff Whaling posted his method in response to Tim Bogers question. (I keep files with the text of interesting threads.)

HOLLOWING A SPHERE

TIM:

My question, I feel like I have just recently watched a video on making a hollow sphere with the wall thickness @ 1/8 in. The method shown (here is where the memory gets fuzzy) was to cut the completed sphere in 1/2 while still on the lathe so you end up with two exact pieces. These pieces were then remounted with a chuck via a small tenon left on the ends of both halves, then the Vermec Jig was used to cut the center out so that a bowl shape at 1/8th thickness remains. Once both sides are hollowed they are glued back together and prepared for piercing.

GEOFF:

Tim the process I use is the other way round.

Hollow a hemisphere using the Vermec Sphere Jig (VSJ).

Start with a cylinder between centers and cut a tenon on both ends. The length of the cylinder will have to make an allowance for clearance behind the sphere on at least one end.

Part in half, then mount one end in a chuck.

Set up the VSJ & make sure the arm with the carbide cutter is aligned on the center line of the swing arm so that the vertical axis of the pivot mount passes through the CL of the cutter arm. This is most important for the hollowing, as the cutter will not trace a circular arc centered on the CL of the blank if you do not. You can fiddle (fudge) a little but the actual cutting section of the carbide cutter must be on CL.

Now set the equator aligning pin to align with the end of the blank, clamp the base & start hollowing, but remember to make an allowance for a joining tenon.

Repeat for the other half.

Join both halves, glue them if you wish, and then align the VSJ's equator pin to the equator of the joined halves - again remember to allow for how you joined the two halves when you align the VSJ. You may have to offset slightly depending upon how you made allowance for the mortice / tenon.

Set the VSJ so that the cutter arm is slightly rotated to the LHS of CL of the swing arm - this creates a little extra room between the sphere and the "neck" between the sphere & chuck. Form the outside of the sphere. It doesn't make that much difference to the outside profile if the offset is small.

If the tenon is not glued make sure you only take light cuts.

When satisfied part off the neck then mount the near complete sphere between cup centers to remove the remains of the neck then sand & finish.

If you make a small mistake with the offset the hollow sphere will naturally rest with the thicker wall thickness down .

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John L - turning the end

John K Jordan

> I was able to turn a sphere only attached at the chuck so

> virtually the entire sphere was turned. You might be able

> to do that with the Vermec and it could be you never want to do that.

Sir Lucas,

This video shows the Vermec in action turning a sphere attached on just one end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTsNwxD0uc

Also, you are welcome to borrow the Vermec jig I bought if you want to try it.

JKJ

Re:  Vermec jig Videos?

Tom Albrecht

Can any of you attach some video links?

Thanks.

Re:  Vermec jig Videos?

John K Jordan

I just posted this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTsNwxD0uc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLyreMoRoeE&feature=youtu.be

A YouTube search shows more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQvXugsNRJQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgBrwN-ILtY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvYrJCCLr0

Re: Lauren turning spheres

Keith Tompkins

Here is a commission I'm working on that involves turned spheres, hemispheres, and spheres with cut-outs that will all interlock forming a sculpture. Spheres within spheres. Turned from kiln-dried poplar, and will be painted. Spheres will be sized from 10" to 1.5" and must fit precisely. These are all turned by hand with no fixture or jigs, but are within 1/32" or less. There are several methods to turn a sphere, I will post an easy method in another post.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

David Walser

Keith -- Whenever we are having a discussion about some must-have-tool, some kill joy comes along and points out that real turners do it by hand. Quicker. And get better results. Most unwelcome! [/sarcasm]

No, seriously. That's beautiful work. I've turned a few spheres without a jig and I'm confident I could become reasonably proficient with more time at the lathe. However, I find I'm less of a real turner and more of a real collector of turning related tools. A man's got to know his limits.

Re: Lauren turning spheres

bowlman

Okay, Alan and Lauren, and all others;

Here is my run down on sphere jigs.

First, I have used them all, and own the Chefware Kits EZ Radius Jig, The Carter Perfect Sphere Jig and the Vermec.

The Chefware Kit is the least expensive and performs well. It should be quite adequate for most turners who are NOT turning production spheres. The maximum size sphere you can turn is just shy of 6 inches diameter. An optional accessory is the Hunter carbide cutter. Get it!

The Carter Perfect Sphere Jig was originally developed by Marvin Stoltzfus. This jig is around $325. Maximum sized sphere is 14 inches. And it will make a hollow sphere. You turn a normal sphere but leave a little extra length. Make sure you have a spigot on each end got your chuck. Next cut the sphere in half. Then using the first position on the swinging arm, you hollow first one half of the sphere, then mount the other half in the chuck and repeat. You can use various methods to rejoin the 2 halves. A rubbed glue joint works great, or, a tenon and mortise, or, for the really ambitious, turn male and female threads for a screw fit.

The Vermec is the most expensive. It is also the only one where the feed screw fully engages the cutter on both forward andnretraction. It is also heavily made and is the Rolls Royce or Mercedes of the sphere jigs. Maximum capacity is around 6 inches. It will also make a hollow sphere, though I have not used it that way ... yet.

For those who can't afford a jig, I highly recommend the Soren Berger Sphere calipers. At about $80 they are a great way to turn spheres.

Of course, the least expensive method and the one I used for years and years, is the 3 axis, cup chuck method I learned from Richard Raffan. Very effective and efficient. Works on any size diameter ... you just have to make cup chucks to fit different diameter ranges.

I have turned thousands of spheres using all of the above methods. If you are turning 1 or 2 or 3 spheres a month, the Richard Raffan or the Soren Berger method is the way to go. The jigs are the way to go when you turn a 100 per week. You will still need a method to remove the tenons left by the jigs. Usually only one tenon is left, since you can turn the tail stock side tenon off with the jig.

If anyone has more questions, feel free to contact me. Some months I only turn a 100 or so spheres, other months, I'll turn a 100 a week. The ones that sell the best seem to be in the 2.5 to 4 inch range, with baseball sized spheres being the top seller.

And like someone has already mentioned Mike Hosaluk can turn the darn things free hand. But then Mike IS an alien from another dimension entirely. He and Derek Weidman, another alien from another dimension, are both close friends ... and may just be the 2 most creative artist-turners I know.