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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

This is the most versatile work station you will ever use

more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

Posts

more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#1

more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

john Lucas

As I reported earlier I have the Grizzly and the chucks Plus copies of the Vicmarc. The GRiz was about 5 years old and the Chucks Plus about 3 or so. Both have been used a lot along with my very old Vicmarc's ( I think my youngest one is 8 year old). The GRiz and Chucks Plus both developed the same problem. The Pinion gear that drives the ring gear was worn badly. So bad it was hard to open or close the chucks.

I talked to Paul Judkins who sells the Chucks plus. He said they were aware of the problem and had upgraded the metal in the pinion gears. He said he backs his chucks 100% and sent me a set free just a few days later. I called Grizzly. They only offered to sell me 2 gears at $8 plus shipping so I think it was about $12 if I remember correctly.

Now here's the interesting part. Both of them were difficult to make them work. There must have been a burr somewhere on the ring gear that I just couldn't see. I worked and worked installing them, removing them, pulling the ring gear and looking at it and sanding lightly the teeth that appeared to be the problem. I had marked where the ring gear stopped each time and it was more than one revolution of the pinion gear so it had to be ring gear. I still couldn't see any problem. I filed them very gently with jewelers files. I finally got both chucks moving but they were firm. I use my drill to drive the gears with the inner jaws removed and that was enough to get them working just about like normal. I'm confident with a little more use they will be about as good as new. The interesting part is they chucks look virtually identical. They take the vicmarc jaws and inserts. However the pinion gears are just a hair different and can't be swapped between the Griz and chucks plus. Also the inner jaws are just a hair different and can't be swapped.

Anyway just thought I'd let you know where we stand with these chucks. Thanks Paul for the excellent customer service.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#2

Just reinforces my opinion of Chinese knockoffs

Dick Coers

Looks the same, feels the same at first, but it's really not the same. No way can they hold the same tight tolerances and metallurgy at that lower price. As always, you get what you pay for.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#3

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

robo hippy

John, were the pinion gears work, or did they chip and break? I had one Vickmark smaller chuck some years back that for some reason, and I don't think it was brute strength, I broke off a tooth on one pinion gear, got a free replacement, broke a tooth on it, got another replacement, broke a tooth on it, and they told me to send the chuck back in. Never had the problem again. I would think with your chucks, if the gear is wearing out, then you have 2 different metals in there with the worm one being harder, and the pinion softer.

robo hippy

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#4

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

john Lucas

I think there are two problems. One is the fit of the pinion against the ring gear. There seems to be only a small area worn on the pinion gear near the back. this tells me that the two gears don't mesh properly. The other obviously is that the pinion wears and not the ring gear. Chucks Plus has supposedly corrected this.

If I have time I'll take apart my metal lathe 3 jaw chuck and see how completely the 2 gears mesh.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#5

Real Vicmarcs for me!

Geoff Whaling

John, I'm also in the school of - you get what you pay for. I also won't support "knock offs" for a couple of reasons - the primary one being the original manufacturer did the R&D so should get the rewards for their design. Unfortunately there will always be a market for "knock offs" and unscrupulous manufactures getting a free ride.

It would be interesting to hear your report on how the scroll is wearing on the "knock offs." The leading edge of the scroll has been known to get damaged on the real Vicmarcs, mainly through operating the chuck at maximum opening and from removing the safety stop pin.

Robo, I've been using Vicmarc VM90's, 100's & 120's chucks, but mostly the tommy bar versions, for almost 20 years. I have pulled down and maintained quite a few heavily worked 100's & 120's and have seen some scroll damage from abuse and general wear & tear on backing slides but I have never seen any pinion gear damage, some wear but definitely no missing teeth.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#6

Re: metal 3 jaw scroll chuck

Dave Paine

I happen to have pictures from cleaning a 3 jaw scroll chuck from a Southbend lathe. Posting for reference.

The scroll side of the ring.


All the components laid out. Showing the bevel side of the ring.


Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#7

Re: Real Vicmarcs for me!

john Lucas

Geoff Here's my story. I had 2 vicmarcs. Grizzly came out with a chuck that looked just like them for more than half less. I couldn't stand it. I had to see if they were just junk or any good so I orded one. Seemed like a great chuck. Not quite as smooth as the Vicmarc but seemed to actually function just as well.

when I was at the Florida symposium, Chucks Plus had a little bitty chuck. I needed to reduce my baggage weight for traveling demos so I asked if he had one to fit a 1/4x8 spindle. He said he did so I paid him and said I'd pick it up later. When i went to pick it up he had that little chuck and a 1/4x8 to 1" 8 adaptor with it. Well that would work obviously bit the chuck and adaptor weighed almost the same as the bigger chuck alone so it defeated my purpose. Rather than get my money back I decided to simply take the next size up since it matched my Vicmarcs.

I was quite happy with both until just recently and noticed the wear. I still like the jaws of the Chucks plus. They have some sort of coating that really resists rust.

I don't really like knock off's either and hate buying chinese. However on my budget sometimes there's just no choice. A case in point is milling cutters for my metal lathe. The USA version is 3 or 4 times as expensive as the chinese. Since it's just a hobby to me I simply can't justify the difference in price. By the time you order 4 or 5 different sizes it's a huge savings. I buy USA when I can but sometimes it's just not feasible.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#8

Re: metal 3 jaw scroll chuck

john Lucas

Do you see how long and sloped the pinion gears are. You can see that they mesh almost fully with the ring gear. Not on my wood lathe chucks. Wonder why.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#9

VM120 pinion

Geoff Whaling

John, Here is a photo of the back of the VM120 pinion etc. Its part of the series of photos taken for an article in the AAW Journal. This is the first strip down from new for this chuck. When you look at the original grease it appears that the pinion engages very well.



On your copy I think the issue/s will be a poorly aligned / matched rack & pinion and possibly accelerated wear of the small diameter end of the pinion into the chuck centre boss causing the problems.

Hey no grief from me on purchasing other than OM stuff - that is how the real world works "someone comes up with better sliced bread."

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#10

Re: VM120 pinion

Dale Bonertz

Not better sliced bread Geoff, just cheaper sliced bread but with consequences.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#11

good quality has lasting value.

Geoff Whaling

Depends what your definition of "better" is. I guess I'm fortunate that I have worked hard and have had the "luck" to be able to afford "good quality" tools.

My Dad was a battler, a depression era kid, we struggled at times when I was a kid through some very difficult times in the building industry but we always had an appreciation that "good quality has lasting value."

My reasoning for purchasing Vicmarc's over knock off's is pretty simple. The say VL120's initial purchase price may be twice the price of a cheapie and in 20 years time I will still be using it and it will still have a good resale value. A cheapie may last 5 years or 10 who knows but once they are known to have issues they aren't worth much at all.

I know I can trust a Vicmarc and many of the other OM chucks because they are manufactured to a standard and quality spec - not to a price, with longevity sacrificed for $$ savings.

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#12

Re: good quality has lasting value.

Doug Ladendorf

Thanks for the report John. I just sold my two Novas and bought a Vicmarc 120 for all the reasons mentioned above. Good to know those other jaws fit them.

Doug

Re: more info on GRiz and chucks plus chucks.

#13

Re: good quality has lasting value.

Dale Bonertz

I think I misunderstood your other post. I was referring to the knock offs of not being better but just cheaper with consequences. I agree with you, I to have been fortunate to purchase higher quality tools like Vicmarc and such as well. Getting harder by the day to find them though in many areas. Like battery screw guns, air nail guns, chop saws, bench saws and etc. I am a remodeling contractor and I am getting more and more frustrated when I need to replace tools and how they seem to not last near as long as they used to. Problem is this is becoming the new norm so people just entering my business or our hobby don't know any better so they really have nothing to compare it to so they become satisfied or content with lesser quality.