I'm looking to get a new tool for my lathe. I make windsor chairs. I turn legs and arm posts mostly. The woods I use are usually green hard maple and sometimes red oak. I start with a riven piece that is generally square. I usually ease off the edges with a drawknife before turning. When I start roughing I use a 3/4" roughing gouge until the blank is smooth.I'm thinking that this first step would be a little easier with a beefier gouge. I'm looking at some inexpensive hss 1 1/8" and 2" gouges. I'm not sure which one I want. I've never tried either and have no possibility of testing one out until I buy it.
What I want is for someone who is familiar with these tools to give me some input. Is bigger better,or will either one do the same job? What I want is a smoother ride. That first couple minutes of roughing is a bumpy ride.---Jack
I personally don't think bigger is better, especially for something the size of chair legs. I bought one on a friends recommendation and it is the least used tool in my arsenal. To speed things up you just need to learn different techniques or simply a lot of repetitive practice on the shapes. I find I waste a lot less time sneaking up on shapes than I used to. I know what I want and I get rid of wood quickly down close to the shape I want.
I sharpen my spindle roughing gouge so the "wings" or upright portion of the U is straight. This way I can use those like little skews to further refine the shapes I create with the U portion.
I find pushing the gouge straight in for several steps to remove a lot of wood and sliding it in the direction of the flute to clean up those areas the quickest way to get rid of wood and not damage the areas you want larger.
Here is a video showing how I use the spindle roughing gouge.
Most of the 'getting it smoother' is learning how to use the tool, rather than getting bigger, though bigger can let you take off more at one time, if your lathe has the power. Most of the smoother part, other than being sharp, is learning to move with your body for the cutting, rather than push/pull with your arms. 1 inch would work fine, 1 1/4 also, 2 is getting big. Other than the different metals used, older HSS ones were forged and have a tapered tang on them. You can get milled from bar stock like from Doug Thompson and the V10 metal that has a solid round end rather than the tiny tapered tang.
Thanks John. That video is very helpful. I do alot of the work with my 3/4" but I still want to get something a little bigger. I think I'll stick with the 1 1/8" or 1 1/4". ---Jack
I use a 1" 2060 powder metal gouge from Crown, which works fine for me, but it has the small tang problem common to most spindle roughing gouges. In fact, the one I have is a replacement for one that I broke while checking to see if the stock was round by putting the back of the tool on the spinning wood -- it wasn't round yet, and I somehow allowed the tool to bounce up, and come back down against the spinning wood and PING! The handle was still in my hand, but the rest of the tool went up & over my head, and landed on the floor behind me.
I would rather have one from Doug Thompson or P&N that have a MUCH beefier composition and tang.
I think a big issue in terms of how much work you need to do when roughing square (or riven/irregular) to round is also the bevel angle. Mine is ground at 40 degrees, and with practice, the bevel doesn't really touch much, so there's very little banging and bumping. I'm convinced some of that comes from the out-of-round wood hitting the heel of the bevel. My dad used to sharpen his roughing gouges at about 75 degrees, so it was about like using a scraper, and a very rough ride. You've probably already arrived at an angle that works for you, but I figured it was worth mentioning.
Brad I sharpen mine at 35 degrees but then it's used as a clean up tool almost as much as roughing. I think 40 or 45 degrees is a better alternative for most people due to better edge holding. The 75 degree angle that many come from the factory with is better when you use it only as a scraper for roughing. At least that's my opinion. As always I'm open to suggestions.
The narrow tang should really never be a problem if people used them for what they were designed for, which is spindle roughing. If you use it to rough bowls your going to get a catch sooner or later and it will be a nasty one and will break the small tangs. The Thompson and P@N tools have full thickness tangs so you won't break that but I've seen people break the handles. Bottom line. Don't use them to rough bowls, that's what a bowl gouge is for.
I use about a 45 deg angle. I got that from reading various woodworking books. It seems to work for me. I think I need to work on my approach. I've been doing this for a couple years now but I'm still learning how.---Jack
Thanks for the input Brad. I think I need to work on my approach of the tool to the blank. The idea of the heel hitting the bumps sounds right.At least that's what it feels like.---Jack
I usually don't pay any attention about how I use a roughing gouge; I just do it. But this morning I paid more attention when rounding some squares. I have roughing gouges from 5/8" up to about 1-1/4". I think the bigger roughing gouges can easily take too big a bite when used in the often used back-and-forth motion.
My favorite is the 5/8" deep U flute machined from a round bar. I have two of these, one a Thompson and one a "can't remember." I sharpen both to about 40 degrees. Like all lathe tools, the sharper the better.
These 5/8" roughers both cut very smoothly and cleanly even on my usual dry blanks. I don't get any tool bouncing like I sometimes get with a larger gouge.
I think it is all in the way it is used. I treat it just like a spindle gouge and make a series of scooping cuts all the way from the corners to or nearly to the cleanly rounded diameter, each cut in one pass. I turn the tool so the flute and the tool itself is aimed in the direction of travel. Make one cut starting at one end then move over a bit and repeat until the whole thing is round. The bevel is rubbing the whole time and the heel never beats on the wood. The finish off the tool usually has no or very little tearout.
If I try using even this gouge in the back-and-forth motion usually taught to beginners the tool will beat the wood loudly and with more trauma (and with a lot of tearing and splintering) unless I take very light cuts. The smaller gouge is far more pleasant used like this and I think it is just as fast or faster, but I didn't time it.
The amount of bumping from roughing out spindle blanks with a gouge, in my opinion, comes more from your presentation. Traditional method for them is to approach from square to the lathe, with the bevel high, and raise the handle, lower the bevel until it starts to cut. Once the corners are knocked off, it becomes more of a peeling cut. Before the corners are knocked off, it is more of a scraping cut. The way I do it is to present with the handle at a 45 degree angle to the spindle and lathe bed, and cut more like I am sharpening a pencil. Much less bumping that way, and a better shear angle.
Hey John, I thought bowl gouges were for finish cuts, and scrapers were for roughing out bowls..... Hippy, you sure are different.... Why yes, yes I am...
They are more expensive than the Hamlets, Sorby forged tools but these are about the best SRG available without getting into some really expensive tools. They are milled from solid stock, have a milled tang and are very robust.
I use my Hamlet & P&N SRG's a lot and perform both roughing & finishing cuts with them. I can even cut larger beads & coves with the SRG's BUT you have to be very aware of where the other corner of the SRG is when you roll beads.
The P&N's round bar stock means it has more mass which is very helpful when roughing but it does not have the straight sides (wings) of the forged tools so is not as versatile as the Hamlet / Sorby forged tools which virtually have a LH & a RH bedan thrown in for free.
Presentation angle when roughing makes a big difference in reducing the bumpy ride, working with multiple down hill cuts rather than a number of parallel cuts reduces effort and vibration.
Not sure going to gain much buying a bigger roughing gouge but could not hurt but not sure what you call inexpensive. Typical Packard (Hamlet tools) or Crown M2 HSS 1 ¼” roughing gouge going to run you about $75 plus shipping from Packard Woodworks. Could buy a 1 or 2” roughing gouge from Penn state Industries for much less.
You don’t mention owning a skew chisel, but could not imagine not having one for long or short spindles. They can speed up the process once get things almost round. Like conventional skews and have about five or six in different sizes. Would be lost turning with an Oval skew. Might speed the process using ¾” or 1” for long & ½” for short spindles.
I have a couple skews. I use a 1" oval skew sharpened with a slight curve. I use a roughing gouge a skew and a parting tool when shaping most legs.Some minor stuff with a small gouge.---Jack
"When I start roughing I use a 3/4" roughing gouge until the blank is smooth.I'm thinking that this first step would be a little easier with a beefier gouge."
