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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

Abingdon, VA – Tree Cutting & Portable Sawmill

Alisam index wheel review

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Alisam index wheel review

#1

Alisam index wheel review

john lucas

Alisam index wheel review

First of all I really enjoyed talking to the man who answered the phone when I placed my order. Very friendly and must be efficient because I got the box in just a couple of days like he said I would. Unfortunately his name went in one ear and out the other which often happens for me.

It is a beautifully machined piece of equipment that should last a lifetime. This is my 3rd index wheel, not counting the ones I have made myself. It is the best as far as machining and appearance.

I have been using the www.ironfireLLC index wheel for 10 years or more. It is made of some type of plastic and is extremely rugged and inexpensive. A good buy for those wanting to try indexing. The one problem is that the index pin is a little sloppy in the holes so you have some movement. Not critical for most turnings but I’m trying some new stuff and need more accuracy. I purchased a thicker plexiglass index wheel that had ¼” holes. Had to make my own index pin and a way to secure it to the wheel. I don’t remember now why I didn’t like It any better than my ironfire wheel but I gave it away long ago and kept using the ironfire.

The Alisam wheel fits directly on your spindle the same way the other two did. You slide it on the spindle and then screw in your chuck or faceplate and tighten them against the index wheel. This holds it in place. No screws or anything else needed. It is very well machined and looks great. Some lathes may have a problem with the chuck screwing down against the index wheel and you may need one of those nylon spacers.

They do come with different numbers of holes depending on the size of the wheel. Mine has 4 rings of holes, 144, 120, 90, and 16. These correspond to specific degrees but you can simply divide the number of divisions you want into one of those numbers and use that particular ring. For example if you wanted 36 divisions. Divide that into 144 and you get 4. So you simply place the index pin into one of the holes. Make a cut or mark the turning or whatever you want, move 4 slots and make another one. You can use any one of the rings that works for you.

On other index systems you have to build your own way of locking the wheel in position. The Alisam comes with an index bar that fits into flat piece of aluminum that has 4 large rare earth magnets in it. This is an L shaped device that has a set of holes to hold the index pin. It sits on the lathe bed and is held in place by the magnets and is very solid. The index pin is a 1/4x20 screw that screws into one of the holes on the index bar. It has a reduced diameter pin on the end that goes into the index wheel and it’s a very close fit. At first I thought it was a tiny bit loose. But then I found that if you tighten up the nut that is on the shaft it takes all the slop out of the threads and now it holds the index wheel with virtually no slop. My other index wheels all have some slop and on really critical work it shows up as either wiggly lines or misalignments. That’s why I bought the Alisam and I think it’s going to solve my problems. One other solution for those needing absolutely no movement is to simply put a spring clamp on the wheel and index rod. The pretty much guarantees it won’t wiggle. My friend who is starting to do the basket weave illusion pieces found that any wiggle at all causes problems when your burning the vertical lines.

There are a few things I’m not real keen on. Not serious problems but I may look for a solution. One is that the index bar covers up the holes where your working. This makes it difficult to count the 4 or more holes between your index point. John K Jordan came up with a good solution. Mount it so the numbers are on the headstock side. Now you can simply look at the backside. I have another solution. I take a pair of dividers and set them for the number of spaces I need. Then when I’m ready to move to the next index I put one leg of the divider into the hole I just used. The other leg sits in the hole I need. No more counting (or more accurately, miscounting).

I would replace the nut that is on the index pin with a wing nut. That will make it quicker and easier to lock down the index pin.

The last nitpicking thing is that I would like a spring loaded pin instead of the screw in version. When your doing 36 divisions like I often do, and you have 3 or 4 sets to do, screwing and unscrewing the index pin gets tiresome.

It is possible to bump the magnetic plate and lose your alignment if your not careful. They thoughtfully left a drilled and tapped hole in the center of the bottom bar so you can make your own lower plate and clamp it to the bed of your lathe. That’s what I’ll probably do for the serious work.

All in all I think it’s a wonderful addition to my lathe work. Very well machined and nice looking as well as dead on accurate.



Index wheel set up with furnished nut to hold the wheel for spindle turning



Using dividers to reduce errors when counting the hole spacing.



Using a hand clamp to really secure the index wheel.



this shows the 1/4x 20 nut used to lock the reduce the slop in the index pin threads.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#2

Re: Alisam index wheel review

John K Jordan

Excellent.

This is going to make laying out my chip-carved turnings far easier.

I love the divider idea. Brilliant!

Or for often-used divisions maybe make some fixed spanners from brass or wood or plexiglas.

I've been thinking of some ideas for making a spring-loaded indexing pin. The easiest might be to simply turn a groove in the shaft for an e-clip to hold a spring in compression against the inside of a support bar. The hole in the bar would have to be fairly precise and long enough to keep the pin from wobbling. Maybe a brass bushing, precision reamed? As discussed, a taper on the end of the pin should help seat the pin easier.

I also wondered about making at least the working end of the pin from something like nylon or lignum vitae or HDPE. (Hey, give me a holler if you could use some pieces of HDPE - I bought some BIG 1" thick sheets at the salvage yard in Oak Ridge. The stuff saws and machines beautifully for making jigs and mounting blocks and all kinds of things.)

JKJ

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#3

Re: Alisam index wheel review

John lucas

I was thinking about using a flat spring fastened to one of the spare holes in the shaft and it would push against the index pin i think ill just build a whole new index shaft and add the spring loaded pin

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#4

Re: Alisam index wheel review

Dick strauss

John,

Thanks for your review.

Spring pins usually have a good deal of slop (to allow the pin to to be moved back easily by a spring) that would give the overall system some degree of slop IMHO. Possibly you could drive the alignment pin nut with a cordless drill/driver set at its lowest torque setting. My buddy does this to change jaws on chucks and it works great!

A rotary table that can be mounted either horizontally or vertically might be in order for higher precision needs.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#5

Re: Alisam index wheel review

john lucas

That's why John K and I are talking about reaming the hole for the pin so it's a very close fit and then tapering the end that goes into the index wheel so it's sort of a wedge fit. I sketched out rough plan of my idea to get both a spring index pin and being able to micro adjust the postion of the index wheel by raising or lowering the whole index bar. Twisting the index pin would either lock so that it won't engage or let is slip into position.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#6

rotary table

John K Jordan

>A rotary table...might be in order for higher precision needs.

I used the rotary table from my mill for divisions. It was very accurate but not too fast - it required a whole lot of cranking! And I had to be sure to stop at the right numbers every time. I haven't used the indexing plate yet but it seems skipping holes would be a lot quicker.

Also, there is not a good way that I can figure to mount a rotary table on the lathe at the spindle axis and leave it in place for further turning.

Hey, maybe an indexing plate could be made with fine threads cut on the outside radius, driven by engaging a worm gear when needed. That would give the best of both quick use and precision.

JKJ

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#7

Re: rotary table

john lucas

It could John. You could have a quick release lever for the gear feed similar to the threading index wheel you engage or disengage for threading on a metal lathe. May have to thing about that idea.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#8

Re: Alisam index wheel review

John K Jordan

John L,

I really like your idea of a way to hold the pin away from the plate while adjusting the angle. This quick sketch shows that added to my coiled spring idea using an E-clip. After I drew it I realized that just fastening a small block to the back of the column could do the same thing without having to machine a slot.

The second sketch is another possibility: a pin in a friction nut that could keep the indexing pin retracted as needed then fit into a hole drilled into the column (or just let the pin drop off the side of the column). The nut could allow adjusting the depth of the index pin without having to move the magnet base relative to the disk.


I'm still thinking about a shorter adjustable support too.

JKJ

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#9

Re: Alisam index wheel review

john lucas

The reason I didn't work with your spring design is I wanted to keep the distance from the upright index bar to the index wheel as short as possible. I would think that it would lead to less rocking of the index pin in it's mount.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#10

Re: Alisam index wheel review

Dwight Rutherford

Here is what I have on my rose engine with the Alisam index wheel. Should work for your application.http://www.mcmaster.com/#hand-retractable-spring-plungers/=zu6du9

The pin diameter is .016 which fits the holes of the index wheel with no slop.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#11

spring loaded

John K Jordan

Ah, good point. I'll think about a different configuration. What about a vertical support made from a relatively thin front and back plate with space for an internal spring? The notch would be easy to machine with an end mill. I have some rods that would be perfect.

This could put the front support very close to the indexing plate. Wider separated support points might have less wobble on the pin. Would be easier to ream.

Could put a hold-open catch in the center space with your rolled pin idea.

Also, nothing says the sliding pin needs to be the same diameter as the tapered tip. Could a larger diameter have less relative slop? Might feel more substantial.


You see, I have this huge collection of springs...

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#12

McMaster Carr spring plunger

John K Jordan

I couldn't find the exact one you mentioned with that link. Can you lock it in the retracted position?

JKJ

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#13

Re: McMaster Carr spring plunger

Dwight Rutherford

Yes it is lockable with a quarter turn. Here is a picture of my set up



The McMastercarr part # is either 8487A24 or 8487A25 depending on which ring size you want.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#14

Of course you mean

Brian Roberts

.160 on the pin....not a much too small .016 ?

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#15

Re: Of course you mean

Dwight Rutherford

Thanks for the catch. 0.16 it is. Senior moment.

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#16

yes

John K Jordan

It sure would be a LOT easier to buy one than make one!

Re: Alisam index wheel review

#17

If the pin size is correct 


Re: Alisam index wheel review

#18

Re: If the pin size is correct

John K Jordan

They claim the pin is 0.16

I measured the disk last night with a numbered drill bit set. The 0.161 bit would fit in a hole. The 0.166 bit would not. This indicates that .16 might be a little sloppy if the size is actually 0.160.

If so, there are a couple of ways I know of to add to the diameter - one time I electroplated some copper onto steel. A film of epoxy or CA might be enough, hard to say without looking at one. Another possibility is to buy the next larger size and turn it down to size (assuming it will come apart), tapering it at the same time. Another might be to replace the end - I'm still thinking a plastic or composite tip would snug nicely in the index holes.

If it worked this could be such a simple solution I plan to call and order a couple to play with. (Could be useful elsewhere, too.) I like the one with the plastic knob as long as it will lock open too.

JKJ