Indexing for Jet 1642 - Lucas?

Re: Indexing for Jet 1642 - Lucas? *LINK*

Dwight Rutherford

Here is a link to an excellent commercially made product


http://alisam.com

Re: Indexing for Jet 1642 - Lucas?

Doug Wolf

After thinking about building my own and contemplating drilling all of the hole accurately I broke down and ordered an Iron Fire Index wheel. I built the bracket according to the plans that came with it and am very happy with it.

http://www.ironfirellc.com/

Re: Indexing for Jet 1642 - Lucas?

john lucas

John I use the Ironfire.LLC wheel. It has advantages and disadvantages. Good stuff, It's flexible and unbreakable. It's very well built and seems to work pretty well. The downside is the pin that goes in the holes is an odd size. A numbered size drill if I remember correctly. It's also pretty small. I made a wooden handle for my pin so I wouldn't lose it. It also is just a tiny bit loose so if you need absolutely dead on accuracy such as what Harvey Meyer needs in his basket weave pieces you need a better way to positively lock in the holes. I think I'm going to order one of the Alisam wheels today and check it out. I've thought about that for years but mine seems to work well for what I'm doing now. However I have some ideas that are going to stress any system.

I have also made my own. I rigged up a way to make indexed cuts on my table saw and made a few for mini lathes and they worked well but they only had one set of notches so all of your indexing had to be divisions of that number (24 if I remember correctly).

I've also used the ones you find online and download a drawing. Glue it to a board and then simply clamp it to an index stop. these have the advantage of have a wide variety of numbers but you sort of have to make one for each size.

When I need an odd number I simply make a disc. Step off the correct number (lets say 27 just to be odd) with dividers and make a mark. With an index riser such as the locking arm on the Alisam you simply put a mark on it and align one of the marks on the disc with this mark and clamp it. Not the fastest way in the world but can be very accurate and you can make up any disc you want.

I also have an index table for my milling machine that is of course really accurate and great for layout or for using the mill but it's so huge it's hard to use on the bed of the lathe and no way to use it on headstock.

What about the indexing wheel on many chucks?

David Walser

Not to steal the thread, but does anyone have a simple way to use the indexing wheel found on the back of many chucks? My Vicmark chucks all have an indexing ring and so does my new Record Power chuck. I've not spent much time figuring an easy way of using the rings. Any thoughts?

Re: What about the indexing wheel on many chucks?

Dwight Rutherford

Work the same way an indexing wheel does. My Vicmark Chuck has 24 indents so 360 degrees divided by 24 = 15 degrees separation between holes. Or 30 degrees if you count 2 holes, etc. You would need to make a pin fixture attached to the headstock that engages the holes in the chuck so you could advance the chuck.

Re: What about the indexing wheel on many chucks?

john lucas

David I've looked into it but haven't done it. I use the Ironfire wheel and just got off the phone with Alisam and ordered theirs. What I was going to do with my Vicmarc chucks was rig up a sliding bar kind of like the small latches used on cabinets. I thought I would make a block that goes on the lathe bed and riser arm that comes off this and fits behind the chuck. Then it would have a little T shaped sliding bar that would engage the chuck. I actually sketched it out one day but never built it. The biggest problem I see is the indents are pretty small so it would have to engage pretty solidly.

The Ironfire index wheel is so inexpensive and works fine that's the way I ended up going. Now I'm needing to get a little more accurate and think I can with the Alisam wheel.

Re: What about the indexing wheel on many chucks?

Dwight Rutherford

You will be pleased with the Alisam indexing wheel. I have one on my DIY rose engine and find it to be most accurate.

indexing for chip carving

John K Jordan

Thanks, I'm looking now at some of the commercial indexers. For the use this weekend I cranked the rotary table 15 degrees for each of 24 divisions. I need the divisions to work out to the proper number so the chip carved pattern will work out right. Those I'm planning now use from 24 to 72 divisions, depending on the diameter and size of the chips.

Now I think I need to plan the pattern and the exact size of the divisions BEFORE I turn the piece so I can make it the exact diameter that works out best for a given chip size. This will be a twist to my normal sloppy style of "Ok, that looks about right."!

Another option is to lay out with some arbitrary amount of space between the elements. I did that when laying out my second ornament. Much easier, but there is something nice about a continuous band of decoration.

I am discovering how much difference chip carving on round wood is from flat wood. For one thing, since the blade is angled about 60 degrees to the side, a straight cuts on the equator need to follow a curved line on the surface to result in a flat face cut on the chip. Small chips are far easier than large. Also a challenge is carving without having a flat surface to support the hand to aid in making a controlled cut. Good fun though!

This is my first try at an ornament, in progress and finished, poor cell photo against white piece of paper. When I finish another one or two I'll try to take better photos.



This is basswood and Redheart. Since both are so light in weight, I just drilled a 3/8" hole rather than hollow. Shellac friction polish on the finial, spray lacquer on the basswood.

JKJ

Alisam indexer

John K Jordan

I ordered an Alisam today. It sure looks well made and easy to use. I love using the experience of others!

JKJ

I ordered mine yesterday

john lucas

spent a few minutes talking to him and discussing my needs and it sounds like it will work. I guess we will see. Was hoping to get it Friday but forgot about Veterans day so it may be a little longer.

Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b?

Jimmy Edwards

Their pics seem to show the wheel on a powermatic. If so, do you have to drill and tap holes in the headstock? Also what is the cost of their kit for a PM 3520b?

Re: Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b?

john lucas

The wheel simply slides over the spindle. You screw your faceplate or chuck up against it to hold it in place. A thin 1 1/4 x 8 nut is supplied if your using the index wheel for spindles rather than using a chuck or faceplate. Nothing needs to be drilled or permanently mounted on the lathe. Then bar that locks the index wheel in position when you are using it is held to the lathe with very strong rare earth magnets. You have to be careful when installing this thing because the magnetic pull will pinch a blood blister on your fingers if you get them pinched.

I found that the wheel for my 3520A also fits my Delta 12" midi with my custom 1 1/4x8 adaptor.

Cost may vary due to shipping but mine was $112.

If I have time I'll do a quick review this afternoon.

Re: Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b?

Rum

I was wondering about that as well..

from: http://alisam.com/page/14g9e/Woodworking_turning_OT.html

"A very small number of lathes have a spindle that has a “thread relief” or recess beyond the threaded portion of the spindle before it goes into the headstock casting. If you have this type of spindle you will need to make/turn a spacer to allow the indexing plate to center on the spindle. The GRIZZLY G0632, DELTA 46-755 & 46-715, POWEREMATIC 3520 B, are lathes with this situation that we know about so far but there may be others. So check your spindle first!"

I don't think the 3520A has the relief/recess in the same spot? I'm not entirely sure what the spacer would look like, just a washer to stand it off from the headstock enough to engage the threads perhaps?

Re: Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b? *LINK*

Dave Paine

I'm not entirely sure what the spacer would look like, just a washer to stand it off from the headstock enough to engage the threads perhaps?

Just need something thin and with parallel faces. An anti-gaul washer like the one in the link should work.


http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=packard&Product_Code=112683S&Category_Code=

Re: Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b?

john lucas

Actually I do need a spacer for my 3520A. I made one years ago out of steel because several of my faceplates and one chuck won't go all the way to the spindle face. I had to use one all the time with my ironfire index wheel. Most of my chucks will work without the spacer on the Alisam.

Pic 3520 B Spindle

Doc Green

On my Powermatic 3520 B, the thread relief does not extend all the way to the bearing surface. There is a section beyond the relief that is 1.25" in diameter and about 0.150" wide that I think the indexing wheel should fit onto, with nothing else required.

Thin nut?

John K Jordan

>A thin 1 1/4 x 8 nut is supplied

Is your's thin? I would describe the one I got yesterday as a huge nut, 0.7" thick and about 2" across the flats. (The only thing I have to fit it is the 24" crescent wrench I use with the tractor.)

Your suggestion to drill tommy bar holes in the flats is an excellent one. I'm going to do that as soon as I clear a path to my mill!

I think the disk is very well made. Fits the Jet 1642 perfectly as is. It is curious they don't offer it with the adapter needed to use with the PM and the others that need it.

Re: Pic 3520 B Spindle

john lucas

Doc The Alisam index wheel is a little thinner than that raised portion. My Vicmarc chucks go on over this and have enough interior length to work perfectly without the bushing. I have one other chuck and one faceplate that actually hit this raised portion. The little nylon bushings work great. I made a metal spacer so that I don't introduce any more vibration in the chucks.

Re: Thin nut?

john lucas

John I was comparing it to a full size 1 1/4 nut. Mine is about 1/2 thick. Full size nuts are at least an inch or more. Of course they are quite wide which is why I suggested drilling a 5/16 hole in one side so you can use a tommy bar or pin wrench to get it off and tighten instead of a very large open end wrench.

Re: Pic 3520 B Spindle

John K Jordan

Doc, the dimensions you gave are identical to the Jet 1642. The central hole of the disk is 1.25". The disk is .125" thick, thinner than the .150 width of the raised section. The supplied nut has a .03" raised band on one side which nicely grips the disk. All my Technatool chucks work fine since they have a machined clearance larger than the 1.25" diameter. I suspect a chuck or face plate that didn't snug up properly could have a clearance ground with a stone on a rotary tool.

The other side of the supplied nut is flat and bottoms out before it cinches the plate. (it looks to me like Alisam sliced a standard nut into two thinner nuts with a metal-cutting saw.)

I can't wait to use this on a one of my turned chip-carved items. The divisions on this one are the best I've seen on the indexers I looked at. I do eventually want to modify the indexing arm somewhat.

JKJ

Re: Alisam wheel fitting a 3520b? - thanks

Rum

Thanks, I can get a precision washer from the local iron monger that ought to work...

I haven't pulled the trigger but the stock indexing setup on the 3520 has thus far failed to excite me for a handful of reasons, so have been considering alternatives and this discussion has been very interesting/useful..