I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enough

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

Always put some outlets 50" above the floor. This allows access above plywood leaning against the wall. A couple in the ceiling above your workbench are good also. A duplex gang only costs a little more than a single gang. Always put a 120volt outlet next to a 220 volt outlet. Lighting should NEVER be combined with equipment circuits. It is dark, you trip the breaker on the band saw or table saw, do you want to clear your hands in the dark? Have incandescants mixed with flourescents. Flourescents can stop the visual movement of saw blades.

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

Brad Vietje

Thanks, Bill -- excellent info.

I have to do some wiring in my old house, which I intend to convert to a shop space. I think there are 8 duplex outlets, and a few don't work (need to eliminate that little fire hazard!)

In the barn where I try to turn now, I have a single 220V outlet for the Powermatic, plus a single 120V quad. Yup -- exactly one. I can run the lathe, the dust extractor, plus either two lights or a grinder and one light -- wow. I also have a 50' extension cord dragged across the floor from a separate room at the far corner of the barn. I need to unplug the bandsaw to use anything else... not so efficient. Can't wait for a real shop -- or as close to it as I can come.

I can understand why 45 outlets is not enough, even though that's probably 3X as many as I'll ever have, but believe me, 15 will seem like a HUGE step skyward! To infinity... and beyond!

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

In one man shops, usually you can use only 2 or 3 tools at the same time. You may want 15 plugged in at the same time to keep from playing outlet shuffle. Use, but not being plugged in, is what causes overloads. A good rule of thumb is 10 outlets max in a fifteen amp circuit and 13 max in a 20 amp circuit. Circuits should not be loaded more than 80% if continuous loads like dust collectors, HVAC, etc. Consult your local electrical inspectors. They exist to save your life! Outlets are rated according to the maximum load that the wire will support. Do not put 20 amp outlets in with 15 amp wire

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

John K Jordan

Yikes. I didn't walk down to my shop but in my head I count at least 85, maybe 90 duplex 110v outlets I put in, most high on the walls (above workbench height and to keep me from having to bend over) except some mounted lower in the office area and near doorways. Some have wall switches to power swing-arm light fixtures for bandsaw, lathes, mill, etc. Outside are 6-7 more plus 50 amp 220 for welders and plasma cutter. Don't want too many on one breaker so I used a bunch of breakers!

Even with outlets at least every four feet with many quads, I went back and wired in a few more for special purposes as the shop layout evolved, mostly using "old work" boxes to make it easier to cut the holes. ("Evolved" is a nice cover for my poor planning.) Nice thing about putting up all the paneling and ceiling - I can take down panels as needed to run wires to rework. I took down one panel three times...

You put some in the ceiling, didn't you, that were not all for lights? I mounted duplex 110 outlets in five places on the ceiling. One is for a Jet air filter but the rest are for pull-down power reels. Very useful for portable or temporary tool use.

JKJ

How about 14ga on a 50 amp breaker?

John K Jordan

>Do not put 20 amp outlets in with 15 amp wire

I was wiring on a building in a children's camp in Mexico where someone had a 150 foot run of 14ga Romex in the attic feeding a water heater in the kitchen. The cable was nice and warm to the ouch. They had connected it to a 50 amp breaker!!!

A replacement breaker and wire could not be had within a 10 hour drive. I worried about that building for several years until I could make it back, bringing supplies with me. Fortunately the building was still standing.

JKJ

Re: How about 14ga on a 50 amp breaker?

Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

Resistive loads pull less amperage as voltage drops due to wire size and/or distance. That and a non-constant load probably saved the building. Romex in the attic probably loses heat faster than in a wall. However inductive loads (motors) will pull more amps as voltage drops. Most of the electrical code has been written after the autopsy of building fires and electrocutions and their cause are known.

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

Brad Vietje

Wowser -- that's a LOT!

I'm "remodeling" -- maybe re-hab'ing is a better word -- a 120 year-old building that was originally a slaughterhouse on a fox farm. The whole building is 20 x 46, and the shop part is 19 x 33 inside. As far as I know, it wasn't electrified until 1970, and none too well, at that. I'll pull some wire where I can and make a gigantic improvement (bringing everything up to code), but I'm still thinking 15 quads would be pretty good for my purpose. 85 or more duplex outlets would be pretty busy in this space.

Ceiling mounts would be great in a modern building with an 8' ceiling, but the best I can probably do is a series every 6 - 8 feet along the top of the walls. Since its a shop, and doesn't need to look pretty, I may run surface-mounted conduit just to avoid all the surgery I would need to get into the walls.

I'll post photos someday during the process, and it'll become obvious why I can't mount many in the ceilings -- there's a section at either end with 7.5' ceilings, but the central portion could be generously described as a "cathedral" ceiling. That's where the 9' diameter crane is built into the structure!

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: How about 14ga on a 50 amp breaker?

Barry Irby

Years ago as a Home Inspector I went to a house where they moved the meter base and main panel to the opposite side of the house. As a stop gap measure, they threw a No. 10 romex cable over the roof from the old meter base to the new one until the power company came and hooked up the new 200 amp supply. It came to pass the power company refused to hook up the new supply because the new location of the base did not meet their standards. Two years later I inspected the house for a new buyer. They had been running the house for two years on a No. 10 cable. Up to 200 amps. Heat pump, water heater, range, everything. I stressed they should get it fixed and still can't believe it.

Re: I put 45 outlets in my shop and it's not enoug

Dennis in Southern Oregon

Hopefully on several independent breakers. Problems arise when the air compressor kicks on just when you have just stalled the band saw on a piece of green wood.

15 quads

John K Jordan

>but I'm still thinking 15 quads would be pretty good for my purpose.

>85 or more duplex outlets would be pretty busy in this space.

I can't imagine 15 being enough but I guess it depends on what you will do there.

Some of my electrical thoughts, in case you are interested:

I hate extension cords. I put outlets every 4' or less whether I thought I would need them or not. If I don't, maybe the next guy will. I put quads and extra duplex receptacles where I thought I was going to need more, such as in an undedicated area where I was likely to want portable power tools, dehumidifier, vacuum, etc. and special outlets for things like wifi router. Many of the outlets along the walls are not used. Some are even behind wire shelf units.

The shop I built is 24x62 with office, flat wood, turning, wood storage, welding room with outdoor concrete porch, mill and metal lathe area, electronics bench, closet with cyclone and big air compressor, and a separate 22x24 room with maintenance bays with big insulated garage doors. 2x6 insulated walls all around. This is a multi-purpose building - I use it for everything from beehives/honey, woodturning, electronics repair, machining, carving, welding, chainsaw sharpening, to llama fecal analysis by microscope (for parasites), to storing a little feed storage in summer months (the AC and dehumidifier helps keep it fresh) and flying indoor RC quads and helis! All of these need outlets.

It always seems my most used outlets are full and I have to decide what to unplug. I think it would be hard to have too many outlets. The biggest pain in construction is not running the wire or wiring the recepticals but measuring and cutting the darn holes in the paneling and getting them right. (I used 1/2 ply wall and ceiling.)

I am so loving this shop. I built it right by the barn so I can easily keep an eye on the llamas and such. I put in heat and air and broadband internet with wifi. If I had built a bathroom I could live there. (I do have plans for a small wing with bathroom and tiny kitchen if I can save up some more money.) I put in extra outlets for security video system, wifi router, femtocell tower, and uninteruptable power supply.

I put #1 awg copper 250 ft underground for 100 amps. (nice to have a backhoe!) I see no light dimming or flickering when the 5 hp electric motors or heat pump cut on. I wired a 20 position breaker box with lots of separate circuits to spread the 110v load and separate lighting circuits so the whole thing doesn't go dark if I pop a lighting breaker somehow.

Oh, one electrical thing I don't always see in shops I visit: emergency lighting. They are dirt cheap - I think I paid $19 each and got them for every room that has a door. I have one with a lighted Exit sign in the main shop. Only got triggered once when I was in the shop but it sure was nice to have lights! Figure a separate 110 outlet to keep the emergency light battery charged, or as I did, wire directly to a fixture box.

One other thing about lighting that I really like. I use lots of 4-bulb T5 fixtures in separately switched zones for main lighting, but I also spaced a number of lower brightness lights through the shop on a separate switch. This gives "passage" lights that let me get around and fetch things without turning on the full brights.

Hey, I never heard of a fox farm. Did they raise them for the fur? Your ceiling "design opportunities" sound interesting. Would it be possible to box in the cathedral part for a more functional ceiling (and with insulation benefits)?

It would be fun to the see pictures (and a floor plan - I love floor plans!) 7.5' sure sounds low but comfy - I know basement shops like that which take advantage of easily reached overhead storage. I designed 9' ceilings but wish now I had made them 10'. The new horse/beekeeping/equip storage barn I am building will have 12' ceilings.

JKJ

Re: 15 quads

Brad Vietje

Hey John,

The fox farm is where they raised Silver Fox for the fur trade, from about 1890 until about 1948 or so. The slaughterhouse was used to process farm animals used to feed the foxes, from what I understand. There was a dairy farm across the road, and many other small family farms up and down the hollow. It sat vacant for over 20 years, and then was gutted and converted into a small house in 1970.

We bought the property in 2005, and for 5 chilly winters lived in it. Our original intent was to do a gut-rehab and add on a master bedroom ell and super-insulate the whole works. Turned out, it had a number of issues, like no insulation below the slab, and many other problems, so we ended up building a new super-efficient house. We opted for a passive solar straw bale home, with active solar for hot water and PV (which have not yet been installed -- long story).

Anyhow, I was able to find an older photo of the crane built into the structure. No doubt a gruesome past, but all cleaned up now. I still have the rope with the meat hook on the end, but my wife insisted that it had to be removed if she was going to live there! We had a queen bed in the loft behind the big wheel, and had to climb up a ladder and pass through the small gap to the right to get in and out of bed. The wheel is about 9 feet in diameter. Someone attached a ceiling fan and light to the shaft, which I will remove so I can use the crane. There's a small bathroom, and the far left corner was the kitchen, which I plan to use for finishing.

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

The crane will come in handy for lifting big bowl blanks and log sections for turning lampshades -- sometimes over 200# -- so I plan to put the big lathe right under the crane. It should make a pretty interesting shop when done.

Re: 15 quads

John K Jordan

Wow, that could make an amazing shop! It looks like the place has character.

I can see it now, famous woodworkers and turners use your shop to shoot a series of TV specials. You become famous as host and by association. People make your place a must-see vacation stop. Cottage craft and arts industry springs up all around you. Property values soar. Your work commands top dollar. Your days are spent playing in the shop when not visiting exotic locations in your private jet. Life is good!

JKJ