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matching an 18th century leg

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matching an 18th century leg

#1

matching an 18th century leg

darrin hill

so if i have a dresser that i cannot take off a leg to measure off of, and keep in the shop as a guide, i need to basically take measurements in situ...

its got many coves and beads..

so if i take some graph paper.... and measure thickness about every 1/4 inch... and mark it .... and the highs and low parts, and any odd bits, think i can make a sketch off that?

and then... turn the spindle, and use a thin parting tool to cut each depth mark to proper depth, and it should all work gloriously... correct?

d

advice is appreciated cause I'm doing it for a friend whom i only see once ro twice year.. he leaves for the northeast on saturday and he's about 70 miles from me at the antique show i see him at twice a year..

he's asked me to try to replace a walnut leg on an 18th century dresser... pics to follow..

d

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#2

Re: matching an 18th century leg

David Walser

With your graph paper, a contour gauge, measuring tape, calipers, etc., you should be able to produce a very accurate drawing of the leg you're trying to reproduce. Start with the overall length. Mark the major diameters. Then, using the contour gauge, transfer the contour of the leg to your drawing using the major diameters as landmarks on your "map" of the leg's shape.

For example, say the leg is 18" long and that at 10" from the floor, there is a bead that is 3" in diameter. Use the contour gauge to capture the shape of the bead of the surrounding area. Then, on your drawing, locate the bead on the point that is 10" from the floor end of the leg and 1.5" from the center line. Then, trace the contour onto the graph paper. Do this for all the major diameters and you will eventually sketch out the entire leg.

HTH.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#3

Re: matching an 18th century leg

John K Jordan

Yes, I would at least measure the highs and lows AND record the distance of each from a register mark, say one end.

Also, I would cut a piece of grey cardboard (mat board) to fit behind the leg, light as evenly as possible from two sides to avoid shadows, and take a photograph for reference shooting straight on. If possible, avoid a wide angle lens to minimize distortion - a mild telephoto is best, but even a cell phone picture is better than none. Grey background rather than white can avoid tricking the autoexposure in a PHD camera and give you better exposure on the leg itself. Some closeups might be nice too.

If I wanted to get crazy, I might make templates to fit the original leg to match the curves better, but hey, it's a leg on the floor, not a turning on one side of a grandfather clock at eye level!

Just for fun, here is one use for a template: :-)


JKJ

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#4

Do what David and John suggested!


Re: matching an 18th century leg

#5

Re: matching an 18th century leg

RCH

This is analogous to the process I have used to literally thousands of pottery drawings over the last 40 years. It works. Practice helps.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#6

Re: matching an 18th century leg

Keith Newton

Rather than paper, I like to use a strip of 1/4" mdf about the same height and width as the blank will be.

Stand it beside the original, then use a combination square to pick each step off of the part. Then go back with calipers to measure the inside diameter of the coves, fillets and outsides of the beads, then note them on the pattern where they fall.

It is easy to then pencil in those curves between the heights. WHen you hold the together again, you can easily see if it matches, then make corrections.

It is too hard to hold paper up beside it like this. Bandsaw one side, and set it up behind the turning while you work on it. Just looking over the top, you will know what shape you need to work between these reference points.

Then on the lathe, you can lay the pattern on the blank, and mark the sharp steps on it, and start by establishing the fillets first.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#7

pics

darrin hill


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e76/darrinthephotographer/792C053C-E1FD-433A-880B-E4E36AB4D483_zpsbxn503sh.jpg

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#8

Mike Mills

Re: matching an 18th century leg

mike mills

What I have done in the past is to take a picture head on.

Load in your computer and your printer will probably print on normal graph paper. You know the exact height and width so it is fairly easy to determine the scale.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#9

Re: pics

john lucas

It appears to be a split turning if I'm looking at the right part. Use a paper joint to glue the wood together. Then you can split it afterwords. When using the parting tool to cut the depth of each piece leave it a little bit thick. Parting tools tend to leave a rougher surface and I like to make the final pass with a good sharp gouge to clean up those areas.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#10

replacing entire turning on one side?

John K Jordan

Darrin,

Are you are doing the whole length of the turning on the front and not just the leg under the cabinet?

If so, two things: One, it may look better to replace both sides so the wood and the turning would automatically match exactly on each side. If doing a split turning as John Lucas mentioned, this would be easy - just a little extra turning to make a new duplicate foot.

Second, if replacing just one side, I would be careful about measuring since if the original was made in one piece then split by sawing, the diameters measured across the front with calipers will be smaller than the true turned diameters due to the saw kerf. Measuring the true diameter in this case would be more effort. Replacing both sides would automatically take care of this.

The most challenging part might be finishing to match!

JKJ

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#11

Re: pics

Doug Wolf


Re: matching an 18th century leg

#12

Ken Vaughan

Forensics of matching an 18th century leg

Ken Vaughan

Key questions and assumptions are how that really neat dresser was constructed.

I suspect, given its durability, that the lower turning of the leg is not separate from the square block (Pommell?) above it. There may be mortices in the block.

Restoration if such pieces can be a head scratcher.

(My mother delighted in such pieces and I was her grunt labor).

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#13

more pics

darrin hill




be impressed i did that much...

it appears that the vertical frame board and the leg were all one piece, and the decoration on the front was a split turning, but the leg and frame were one piece. The leg's grain separated and was weakened by the mortis joints, and popped out, hence the circular hole in the bottom of the where the foot was...

so I'm cutting a blank that will be longer than that, and he can cut the end to fit.. he's going to have to remove some of the rotten joint part,, but thats all on him.

in my 'i have no clue' opinion, i think he should fill the hole with epoxy, then drill a hole out for a tenon i can turn.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#14

Keith Tompkins

Re: more pics

Keith Tompkins

I would clean up the base as cleanly as possible, and since the rear of the cabinet has solid rear legs, I would carefully drill a hole in the leg, turn a new leg with a tenon, and install.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#15

Re: more pics

john lucas

I have repaired them like Keith showed but in my case it was extremely difficult to drill the hole true because the wood was bad. I drilled the hole one size too large and then used epoxy to fill the space. I just applied lots to the tenon on the leg and then clamped it into the exact position needed and let it dry. Epoxy filled the gap as well as hardening the rotted wood inside. Hydraulic pressure will try and push the leg out so you need to practice placing the clamps and aligning everything before assembly.

Re: matching an 18th century leg

#16

While I would use Keith's method for a staff,

Keith Newton

It appears that in this case, if it were that large, it would remove too much wood from the tenons.

What I have done in some of these situations where bad repairs already have failed, is to drill into both parts, and use a section of all-thread instead of a dowel.

As for drill alignment, I'd start by cutting the rest of the fillet off, then use bondo to fill the voids left in the end of the break.

Before you turn your new leg, start with a longer blank, and cut off about 1" to glue back on after you drill the mortice hole. Then on the end of the blank, measure and lay out where those tenons are coming in and mark them on your new blank. You can then set it up on the drill press, and drill right in the corner made by the tenons. Something like a 5/8" hole for a 9/16" bolt would be plenty strong for this. Now cut off about 1.5" of the just drilled end, and use it as a drill guide going back up into the old style. You can clamp that short onto a 1x2, clamped onto the carcass, to hold it into place while drilling.

After you have drilled this hole, CA glue the short section back on to accept the tailstock center, if your drilled hole is off center.

I mix enough colloidal silica into the epoxy to make it as thick as catsup or mayo. With a small pencil size stick, you can work enough down into the holes to leave a heavy coat on all sides. Of course really coat the threaded rod with more than enough to fill the space.

Let me back up a little. You can drill a little vent hole in from the side intersecting the the end of each hole, to vent the air out. Otherwise the compressed air in the hole will push it apart, or blow out some of the epoxy that you want to totally fill the space. And of course everything should be taped off with masking tape before assembly.

If your drilling doesn't end up straight enough, you can find that out before turning if you have the piece on hand. Otherwise, don't worry. You can drill the holes larger, and even bend the metal rod in a vice or anvil with a hammer. The thickened epoxy will be just as strong 1/4" thick as 1/16".