shop is moving fast now

Re: shop is moving fast now

John Stegall

Congratulations John. Excitement speeds things up!

Steel ceiling?

John K Jordan

While living under a rock, I missed the existance of steel ceilings. Is this like a drop ceiling with the access advantages? How do you insulate?

More pictures! There is little more exciting than a new shop. (Hint: Layout drawings are nice too - I love to see how people arrange things.)

No Pictures, Not Happening

Re: Steel ceiling?

john lucas

John I'm just going to use steel roofing for my ceiling. It would be a bear to put wafer board or drywall up and the roofing comes in 2 foot widths and is one heck of a lot lighter meaning I can install it myself. I will have sprayed cellulous put on top for an r38 insulation value I believe is what the guy said. Cutting the holes for the receptacles will be fun since I don't have my compressor and air saw but I think I can do that with my jigsaw just fine.

It's just an empty room right now

john lucas

I tried downloading the workshop layout plans but I just can't get a feel for the space needed around machines so there isn't any shop layout yet. I know where the bandsaw, work bench and big lathe will go. I think I know where my metal workbench, metal lathe and tool box will go and that's about it. The rest of the things are on wheels and will probably just get shoved around until I find a working solution.

Re: It's just an empty room right now

curt stivison

John,

I put a steel ceiling in my shop and I used outlet boxes mounted right on the steel an ran my wire in pvc conduit. Made a neat job and better than drilling metal ceiling.

picture

john lucas

I got the big window installed that I got at a super bargain rate of $79. It's low E glass and 40x 56". The store where I got is said they usually sell for $300. It was a return for some reason. Man does it light up the room. I'm so glad I jumped on that deal. When I get the other 5 smaller windows in it will make a huge difference in how the shop feels.

I'm going to build a workbench to cover that entire wall beside the window. My sanders and grinders will go there and may consider building a downdraft table near the window to do my power carving. The workbench would be a great place to store carving supplies if I put drawers in it.

Re: picture

Hugh Buttrum

John,

Drawers: A friend of mine is a cabinet maker (he is also a woodturner).....he just build a bunch of new cabinets for my shop.....he says put in as many drawers as you can. He was right. I have something like 33 new drawers......some big ones to hold my electric tools in their cases.....all drawers have very nice drawer slides. Drawers allow you to just pull the drawer open and take out what you need....but closes up to hide it all later. Really like drawers.

Also - he designed a 2' wide shelf going around the shop to hold drying and dried bowls. I have over 200 stored up there. But a really good idea.

Hugh

Re: picture

Wayne Kuhn

I too really like drawers, i think they are best storage option for tools and supplies.

Cabinet shelves have wasted space above them, i don't have room to hang my tools on the wall. Storage containers on wheels work for seldom used or long term. Almost all of my drawers are labeled as well. So easy to clean up and find tools as you need them.

Re: picture

Stuart Johnson

It's amazing how the room with shrink as you move stuff in and hang cabinets. I didn't put in any windows because they would have been on the south and west facing walls catching the full summer sun. The north wall would have been good but a security issue. Someday when I get those six numbers I'm going to have a wide porch added on the south side and be able to add windows. Natural light beats the heck out of any artificial light.

Re: picture

Dennis in Southern Oregon

The down side of lots of windows is that you run out of places to hang tool, etc on the walls. I am in that situation now with my shop.

Re: picture

John K Jordan

>The down side of lots of windows is that you run out of places to hang tool,

>etc on the walls. I am in that situation now with my shop.

When I built my shop I decided to eliminate three windows for that reason. I paneled the walls with 1/2" plywood to make hanging things easier.

I do wish I had more drawers. My temporary solution for small things is to line up Walmart plastic drawer things and lidded clear ontainers on shelves.

Re: picture

john lucas

I am worried about security. Gonna deal with that issue when it comes time to move stuff in. I live in a fenced in yard but of course someone can always climb the fence. Not worried when I'm home. I have motion detectors and I'm well armed. However when I'm gone is when I worry about someone coming in. Can't really afford a monitored system and probably live too far from the police anyway. Probably go with some sort of noise maker. I do have enough neighbors around that it would at least scare someone off.

I to tend to put a lot of things on the walls, especially clamps but I think I'm going to make some sort of clamp cart that will be stored against the wall. It will hold a lot more clamps in a smaller area if done correctly.

Security

John K Jordan

Motion activated inside alarms go in pretty quickly - I installed one with a keypad just inside the door, siren in attic near vent to alert the neighborhood. A warning sign on door "reminding" me to turn off alarm might keep some out. I put video cameras on a DVR abd connected to ethernet so I can check on the place (and the llamas) from anywhere, my bedroom, the beach, Europe, with signs warning the morons. Wireless motion sensor driveway alerts from Northern Tool that sound in he house - could be mounted behind the building in spots hidden from the house. I designed but did not yet weld up decorative steel grates for the windows. I got a lot of ideas for decorative window protection while walking around Venice. Steel doors with deadbolts. (I like the Schlage keypad deadbolts so I can always get in without carrying around keys.) An inside light on a timer is supposed to be helpful ("that crazy guy is up working at 4am again"). I use industrial led "yard" lights and bright led motion-activated security lights outside. The big dogs with loud bark are also nice. Good relationship with neighbors is invaluable - I get calls if unrecognized people even stop by the fence to look at the animals. We look out for each other.

Re: Security

john lucas

John I can't make myself use any type of grill or bars on the windows. It would just feel too much like being in a prison. What I have thought about doing (since I'm learning blacksmithing) is making some steel flowers with extra shoots coming up from the "flower Pot" that are sharpened spikes. This would deter anyone from trying to climb in a window. If I make the spikes kind of angle outward it would be possible to climb over them from the inside in case of emergency but would certainly make climbing in difficult.

Of course I could do what my friend in Maryland did. He made custom Harley Motorcycles. Unfortunately they weren't worth anything for insurance purposes while they were being built but to a thief were worth a lot of money. He tied hand grenades to the garage door each night before locking the heavy steel entrance door. No one every knew if they were real or not but word got around and he was never broken into.

tool placement

john lucas

spent the morning looking at where to place all the tools. That's exciting and fun to be at this stage. I used the floor mats that I placed at each machine to be stand ins for the machines. That and some masking tape on the floor gave me a chance to walk around a machine like you would use it to better judge the placement. After I get a ball park idea I'll start looking at dust collection and see if machines can be moved to make a less complicated set up.

I tried the online shop design programs but you just can't get the feel of how much space you need around certain machines for real life use. Things like have space to feed long pieces in the jointer and planer or ripping full sheets of plywood on the table saw.

As far as the lathe goes I'm trying to figure out a convenient way to organize the tools and grinder around it while still being able to "fence it in" to keep the shavings from going around the rest of the shop.

Re: Security *LINK*

David Walser

For window security, consider industrial roller shades. They are metal, wood, or resin tambours that cover you windows like a closed roll-top desk when you're not using them. Lower them before you leave and they are almost impossible for someone to break through. As a bonus, they protect your windows in case of storm. The shades can be manually operated or electric. I think this is a much better solution for window security -- unless you're worried someone will break in while you're in your shop! Roller shades allow a fully unobstructed view and do not prevent your using the windows as an emergency exit.

Also, spend some time looking at the products from home automation companies, like SmartHome. (I've included a link below.) I've been using SmartHome's INSTEON products for years to control our sprinkler system and lights in our home. They make sensors that, when tripped, will not only sound an alarm, they'll call you on your cell phone! This allows you to actively monitor your home security even while traveling. Or, you could change the phone number while you're out of town to the number of a neighbor.

And, of course, the system can be connected to a commercial security monitoring company. There are several that provide this service over the internet with prices starting at less than $10/month for 24/7 monitoring. If a sensor is tripped, they'll call you and, if you don't answer, the police or fire department. (Their smoke and temperature sensors can be part of the security system.)

I've not used SmartHome's security sensors, just some of their other products. It's one of those things I keep intending to install and have never gotten around to doing. I also plan on installing temperature and motion sensors in each of the rooms and using that to control our homes heating and air conditioning. Our home's 30+ year-old ducts don't do a good job at distributing air evenly. Some rooms are too hot while others are too cold. By installing controlled fans inside the ducts and controlled vents in each of the rooms, I can be sure that the room I'm using is at the desired temperature. In effect, each room becomes it's own zone. That's another cool (or hot, depending on the season) project for when I get the time.


http://www.smarthome.com/

Re: tool placement

John K Jordan

I made good use of the masking tape on the floor method! I used it on the walls and ceilings here and there.

In the "old" days I would have used my 3D graphics software for this but I quit all that after retirement. For this shop I made a large scale drawing of my space including windows and doors on a big piece of poster board, then made paper cutouts for each tool. For infeed/outfeed space I taped on paper rectangles for 4', 8', etc. This was actually quicker, less work, and just as or more flexible than the 3D software would have been.

For walking space I mocked up an isle with some big cardboard boxes and walked through to see what was comfortable and what was acceptable, then made a scale circle to move through the drawing. I did the same to allow enough space for chairs in the office room.

I used this scale drawing also to plan the 220v outlets placement for the bigger tools and to place the dust collection drops since the feed pipes were in the trusses above the ceiling. It was a help to plan the compressed air outlets as well as the heat/air diffuser placements in the ceiling and even the lighting. (I didn't want a bright light fixture placed where the glare from the polished tablesaw top would be in my eyes.)

In my case since I was building from the ground up, I did all this before I built the shop but I used the diagram over and over while refining things and making minor changes later. A LOT easier than moving benches and bandsaws! (and a whole lot easier than moving outlets and lights and dust collection drops after the fact - yikes!) I recently made another scale drawing for a kitchenette + bathroom with shower addition I hope to add someday when I save up some more money.

Oh, one thing about ceilings you might think about. I have wiring and ductwork above the plywood so I made several removable access panels. Before I put up the ceiling panels I stretched ropes from each access to every other access and tied them to a truss near the access. This way it should be easier if I ever decide to pull another cable through the trusses. (And since I put a light up in the ceiling space I wired it to a switch with a pilot light high on the wall so I would be less likely to leave the light on for months. Don't ask me how I learned that.)

JKJ

Re: Security

John K Jordan

>For window security, consider industrial roller shades

I will certainly look into these for my shop. I didn't like putting bars on mine either so these might be the solution. Thanks! JKJ (A quick search found some called "security rolling shutters")

Re: shop is moving fast now

Barry Irby

I've said this before, but it may bear repeating. Leave a place for the project. Its easy to forget.

I have my TS set up in front of the garage doors. Its about six feet inside the door, but if I need to rip something longer I open the door. My jointer has a similar arrangement with an in feed door. (Tiny shop blues here.)

Re: shop is moving fast now

john lucas

Barry I knew where the lathe was going to go so the second thing I did was lay out the table saw arrangement. I put it at an angle in roughly the middle so I can cut a full sheet of plywood either cross cut or lengthwise. then I've been trying to figure out what to do with the jointer and planer. The Jointer is a problem. I used to put it on the left side of the table saw because my old one's fence was lower than the table saw table so I could still rip panels and it wouldn't be in the way. My new jointer's fence sits higher but I was thinking today about simply shortening it's stand by cutting the feet shorter. Wouldn't hurt it functionality and would let me put it where i'm use to.

The tool I'm having difficult with is the miter saw. I've never had the capability to cut just a few inches off an 8 foot board and really wanted that option if possible in this shop. I think I worked it out today as long as I close the entry door while i'm cutting those boards to the left of the blade. I'm thinking about storing the planer to the right of the blade and will have to roll it out of the way if I want to cut long boards on the right side. I don't do much of that but it sure would be nice.

Re: shop is moving fast now

gary clarke

John, I hung some electrical conduit and attached some clear vinyl with shower curtain hooks around my lathe to keep the chips and shavings contained. the conduit is easily bendable and works for me. Just in case you haven't already thought of this. Wish you lived near me and could remodel my shop.

Re: shop is moving fast now

Stuart Johnson

My new jointer's fence sits higher but I was thinking today about simply shortening it's stand by cutting the feet shorter.

John, you might want to think how often and when you use jointer. I find I use mine a bunch for a given project and then not at all for sometime. You might want to think about removing the fence when not in use or possibly it might tilt down enough to be out of the way.

Re: shop is moving fast now

john lucas

It is a Steel City Granite bed jointer so the fence is pretty heavy and fragile if dropped. However it is easy to remove so I might consider that. If I make a storage shelf of some sort it might work. Thanks Stuart.