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Second lesson, first bowls

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Second lesson, first bowls

#1

Second lesson, first bowls

John K Jordan

I have very little time for turning with the demands of the farm, horses, llamas, bees and such, but I always take the time when someone wants to learn, whether it's horses, welding, or wood!

I set up a second Jet 1642 in my new shop just in time for a second turning lesson ever for these girls. The first lesson started with the skew then spindle gouge and they both went home with spindle turnings they made.

Today was an introduction to face turning. After a few hours of safety, theory, tools, and cuts we pulled out an air dried farm-grown cherry slab and cut some bowl blanks. They did well and had a great time! These are their first bowls, still dripping with oil. Good clean fun.

These young ladies are studying animal science in veterinary school. Naomi, on the left, pursuing pathology, was also in my kindergarten class a LONG time ago!


The second lathe makes things go SO much smoother.


Tomorrow, two more are coming for small spindle turning.

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#2

pass it forward...

GaryG in MD

Well done, John. ...GG

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#3

Mike Stafford

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

Mike Stafford

Good for you John.

Hey what is it and you with ladies in the shop? I recall a Israeli woman who you had wrapped around your finger or was it the other way around in reverse.

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#4

Oh no, caught being friendly again!

John K Jordan

Mike, perhaps our memories are failing along with our youthful good looks - how can one possibly pick who is interested in what?! Mostly it seems old men are interested in woodturning but I strongly believe in equal opportunity. Ages 5 to 75 have come to play in the shop, male, female, and indeterminate.

Today, two old guys (almost as old as you and me) will come in the morning for small spindle and skew then a teenaged girl and her father in the afternoon.

JKJ

PS, if one should desire to have just the young ladies hang out, get horses. Yikes, every week the same story - they come to feed, bathe, groom, exercise, and ride, two, sometimes three at a time. One girl even worked with my blind horse Tiny for weeks and now rides him everywhere!! Life is good. :-)


Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#5

good on ya


Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#6

That'll do nicely John!


Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#7

Mike Stafford

Youthful good looks, what's that?

Mike Stafford

Did you give all those girls and kids a top like you used to?

Have fun!

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#8

Brad Vietje

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

Brad Vietje

Great work, John!

I found my niece was more interested in turning than my nephew -- only 2 legless horses (hp) involved!

I must be getting older than I thought -- these two look far too young to be in Vet school! Oh, where is that fountain of youth?!?

Safe spinning,

Brad Vietje

Newbury, VT

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#9

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

John K Jordan

>...these two look far too young to be in Vet school!

Brad, you are quite right. The girl on the right is only 15. She started college WAY young. Quick learner, turned and finished her bowl very quickly. The other girl is 19, looks young for her age. Plays piano and harp, trains seeing-eye dogs, and skins and tans hides for fun. Perhaps not your typical college students.

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#10

Giving stuff

John K Jordan

>Did you give all those girls and kids a top like you used to?

Many tops, sometimes wands, boxes, other stuff. But a wise man told me once that the most valuable gift you can give to someone is your time!

Yesterday I made and gave an osage finger top to an old new woodturner while demonstrating some spindle turning.

If there is time I often invite the person to learn a bit about woodturning and help me make something they can take home or give for a present. For one older girl we made a conductor's baton as a graduation present for her boyfriend. This way they have a hand in the gift making it much more personal!

For equestrians, I prefer something else - exclusive JKJ custom riding crops! Here are pictures of a happy rider and a another crop handle under construction and mostly done.


Cocobolo, stippled with carbide Dremel bit, no finish yet. She helps where she can, I do the rest.


Good clean fun!

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#11

Re: Giving stuff

John Jordan

You're a good man, John. :)

JBJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#12

What's in a name?

John K Jordan

Hey, every one of the John Jordans I know are amazing and exceptionally wonderful people, kind and friendly, astoundingly great artists and incredible craftsmen! And quite humble. Ha!

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#13

Re: Giving stuff - crops are genius!

Rum

I know people who would like one of those.. added to the list.

You guys are all amazing :D

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#14

Re: Giving stuff - crops are genius!

John K Jordan

Thanks, good fun! :)

I've made dozens of these, from ebony to dogwood, cocobolo to osage orange. I try to make them all different. The texture is important since the rider has to hold on to it while standing in stirrups, jumping a 1000 lb horse!

I ripped the handles off an inexpensive but high quality crop and epoxied the shaft into the wooden handle. These were made to spec for hunter-jumper competition. I've also made dressage whips but they are more trouble because of the length of the handle and the need to epoxy in lead shot to get the balance right.

As far as I know, these are exclusive (up to now!) - none of the people I talked to in the competition circuit had seen anything like them in use or for sale. I've never even posted a picture anywhere until now.

Some of one batch:


JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#15

Re: Giving stuff - crops are genius!

Rum

Lovely! That one in ?ebony/blackwood? three from the left is a stunner and the white (holly?) one dead center is a real looker as well. Although I think some of the rounder end ones (or at least less sharp corners) are likely more functional. Actually quite like the stippled ones as well :D

I'll have to think about the whip choice and how far down that rabbit hole I want to go... Given how long its been since I did any serious braiding and my current tooling situation you whip re-build theory seems like a good place to start. If the idea looks good I can always give a few handles to my dad next time I'm over to visit him and have someone who can actually braid make the rest of them.

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#16

crops, woods, and evolution

John K Jordan

In case anyone is interested, the crops in the picture were from my first batch, many were experiments, some I didn't like much. A few I chucked up and reworked. Some were so ugly they went in the scrap bin. I never want to turn wenge again! I refined both the shapes and textures considerably on later handles.

The woods I used, from left to right in the previous photo:

Cocobolo

Lacewood

Ebony

Mahogany

Bloodwood

Tulipwood

Bradford pear

Holly

Bubinga

Jatoba

Magnolia

Bloodwood

Spalted Maple

African Rosewood

Zebrano

Osage Orange

Spalted Beech

Osage Orange

Spalted Maple

I've also used Kingwood, Purple Heart (quite popular), English Walnut Burl, Bolivian Rosewood, Borneo Rosewood, Mopani, Padauk, Ziricote, Leopard Wood, Wormy Persimmon, Franquette Walnut, and probably a few others I've forgotten.

BTW, the crops are an evolution of my magic wands (as in "Harry Potter"), of which I've made hundreds. For those looking for fun turning projects, from my experience these are guaranteed to make people happy, from youngsters to geeks to corporate executives!




These are a bit tricky to make since they are long and slender but I have devised a few techniques which simplify things if anyone is interested.

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#17

Re: crops, woods, and evolution

Rum

Thanks John,

I'd have to imagine that after that many wands you'd certainly have it down :D Good skew practice anyway.

Technically I believe that they would be pretty similar to do to drop spindles, which I've done a number of (8-14" long an 3/16"-1/4" wide). The way I've been doing those is to turn one end round then put it in a collet chuck and make sure it's really well centered then bring up the tail stock with almost no pressure. The last little bit of finish of turning I do with the skew without the tail stock at all and using my other hand for back support. The spindles need to turn really true so pulling away the tailstock lets me know if the wood warped at all after the bulk of the material was removed - if it did it's probably no good. I'll also slack and adjust the tailstock while turning to adjust some, but sometimes they move quite a bit if there was much tension in the wood. I usually do the stages in batches so the tooling changeover isn't to bad.

There's most likely a smarter/faster ways to do them, so corrections/suggestions/ideas/guidance most certainly welcome!

The whip handles should be less fussy..

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#18

drop spindle shafts and such

John K Jordan

It sounds like we work much the same way. I turn long and thin supported by hand and with a light tailstock or none, but I don't use or even have a collet chuck.

Years ago I started turning a short morse taper (between centers) on the ends of spindles such as wands and drop spindles. Press these with a twist right into the headstock. This holds well, wastes little wood, requires no knuckle-banging chuck, gives more clearance for tools, and can be repeatedly removed and remounted with perfect registration.

I made a brass gauge to get the small and larger diameters and the distance between them right very quickly with a parting tool, then usually relieve a bit in the center so the piece basically grips two short sections. (The gauge has a little step to "warn" me I am close to the correct diameter.) I do most of my longer spindles that way. Picture shows some examples:


One way to help keep the drop spindle shafts true if you have time is to turn them most of the way then let them "relax" overnight to allow stresses to relieve, just like when turning boxes. Then turn to final diameter. I don't worry about this with the magic wands but I like to keep the conductor batons straight.

Did you ever make a supported spindle? My handspinning friends use these for fine fibers. One piece spindle, maybe 10-12" tall made from dense wood such as dogwood: a bearing point down resting in a tiny bowl, fat near the bottom for mass for rotation, very sharp point at the top to spin from. I inserted a short piece of aluminum rod in the bearing end and polished it smooth. I made the bowl from a bit of lignum vitae fitted into a wide, flat stick. In operation you sit on a chair with the flat stick under your thigh, rest the spindle in the bowl in front of you. We have llamas and alpacas and a lot of fiber - I make a variety of fiber arts things and spinning wheel parts for friends. I have a couple of spinning wheels but I'm not very good except with a little electric wheel.

Despite my best efforts at wood selection with straight grain, I occasionally get thin shafts that give me vibration grief with even a sharp skew. For these I generally switch to small cabinet scrapers for the final shaping. With these, I rarely need sandpaper coarser than 600 grit.

Another thing I like to do when I have a long thin shaft with a thicker part (such as the wand handle) is thin the shaft part with a bandsaw. This saves a huge amount of turning time. To prevent splitting the small end with the tailstock I make a small hole with a gimlet. I usually prepare these in batches:


The crop handles are indeed pretty straight forward. (Hint: check State Line Tack for Short Jump Bats.) I chuck, drill the hole, support with a cone in the hole, turn and texture, then reverse to finish the end using the same drill bit as a mandrel. Most of my finishing is off the lathe. Each one has a card with the wood name, some interesting fact about the wood, and contact info. I did find nice indestructible clear plastic mailing tubes and caps for protection and presentation.

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#19

Re: drop spindle shafts and such

Rum

I've been using the "apprentice" https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/179/4400/Apprentice-Collet-Chuck-7-Piece-Set which isn't to bad for knuckle knocking and I like that it puts the work a bit further from the headstock. The big square headstock is one gripe I have with my 3520, if I had room I'd get a smaller lathe for doing small spindle work like this. So I think I actually get more "clearance" (for some definition of clearance) with the chuck. A $10 MT2 extender would also serve a similar purpose of getting me away from the headstock some.. hrmmm.. Changing the angle on my skew might also help some.

I think the amount of waste should be close to the same, I'm only putting maybe 1" or so into the chuck and only loose 3/4" or so past that so maybe a smidge more but in the ballpark.

I like the gauge, I made a go/no go mt2 gauge that basically mirrors the taper for making mini jam chucks but your method allows making a shorter taper, is more accurate, and much faster as well (funny how you stick with doing things even when you should be able to see a better way - I've used similar things for sizing spindles for a while now). Using the drill bit as mandrel isn't something I'd probably have thought of either, thanks for that! With the detailing you put on them I can certainly see why you'd do most of the finish off of the lathe.

I've made a couple of types of supported spindles - but not the specific type you're describing (yet). Those were already on the list although I think I'll be using brass brazing rod for the spindle part and something else for the whorl as I'm supposed to be making them for cotton and I'm not sure I can go long/thin enough for that (cotton needs about a 1/8" shaft). The bowl inside a board certainly seems like a nice step up from the egg cup between the knees most of the folks are using, also added to the notes :D

Hopefully this link works.. Here are two of the supported spindle types I've done.


The maple/walnut is close to what you're describing but a bit heavier and more suited for medium sized yarn (maple was a poor choice for this as its definitely not dense/stable enough at least not soft maple, the walnut wasn't heavy enough either - live and learn). The shaft on this one developed a bit of a sway to it so I never bothered to take it as thin as it should be, it works but not very well (it was one of my earlier attempts and stayed on as a mantle piece).

The other is a Russian lace spindle made out of lytus; these are used for really fine lace (say 3-4 strands thick of some fine staple fiber like cashmere goat) which could be used to make a "ring shawl" (where the entire shawl will pass through a ring). Its used in a similar fashion but doesn't have as much "spin duration" and is mostly used with a longer draw putting the point in a bowl on the floor. This one is imho pretty close to correct for the style although the points on both ends could be a smidge finer. They're also harder to use in my limited experience.

There are also the Navajo spindles that are 2-3' long and technically fall into the "supported spindle" class - but are a bit of a different beast (and I don't have any of those on hand).

Loml is the spinner and has a small collection of wheels (and a larger collection of fiber from various critters). I learned how to drop spindle enough to be somewhat competent so I could figure out what makes a good spindle but never got much past that. I can spin on a wheel but certainly not well (two glasses of wine to start with helps keep the off hand relaxed). I'm also supposed to make an e-spinner (or more correctly "they cost what for what?! I'll make you one".. the motor I want has been surprising hard to source for a reasonable price though and the concerned party has been getting a bit restless).

There are a handful of really good drop spindle turners around here who make a lot nicer ones that I'll likely ever do as an ongoing process (given that that's all they do.. its hard to get the same knack as an occasional hobbiest) so I mostly do things we can't find commercially or to play with design details to see what works differently or just stuff that looks interesting for whatever reason (a lot of the fiber arts tools are pretty interesting around how they work).

Had I known then I'd have made an effort to look you up when we drove through Clinton a few years back (we did stop at the lovely little yarn store downtown). Amusingly I grew up in a town named Clinton, but its in B.C. not TN, loml joked that it would be just like moving back home only not so cold.

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#20

E-wheel, spinning

John K Jordan

Check out the Electric Eel Wheel if you haven't. Is that the one you referred to? I bought one as a kit and it is nicely engineered with laser-cut baltic burch ply. I glanced at the controller and I think he is using an Arduino microprocessor chip to control the motor, starting acceleration/deceleration, etc. I think I have version 2 or 3 and I thought the price was quite reasonable. I reworked it some to to make it run smoother and quieter. I use it with a foot switch from an old synthesizer sustain switch.

http://www.dreamingrobots.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2

I can spin far better on the electric wheel than my Lendrum vertical wheel - I guess I'm not coordinated enough! My architect son taught me the basics of knitting at the beach last year. I teach kindergarten SS and have kids here at the farm all the time - with the drum carder and wheel my goal is to be able to show kids the whole process I did myself - here is the alpaca, this is the fleece I sheared, here's the roving and the yarn, and here is the hat!

If you get this way again, please drop by! That goes for woodturners from all over - I love visitors.

BTW, have you turned dogwood? It is one of my favorite for turning. I was able to get nearly a needle sharp tip for the supported spindle a friend wanted for spinning cotton - she kept saying "a little sharper, a little sharper!" Dogwood is so fine grained and tough it is perfect for such things, quite stable as long as it is away from the pith and well dried! I have some air drying since 2006 and now acclimated in the air conditioned shop and a whole bunch more recently cut.

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#21

Re: E-wheel, spinning

Rum

The e-spinner the boss wanted was the Hansen: http://www.hansencrafts.com/ its a wee bit more refined, but close to the same idea as the Electric Eel. There are a few things in the electronics I want to change, specifically I'd like to make it so we can charge it from a standard USB 2.0 interface (and that will enable the use of a few other stock items for the battery, etc... which will be nice). I'd also like a somewhat more sophisticated orifice and flyer, ideally it will use some of of her existing bobbins (she has the most for her schacht wheel so I'll probably base it around that). The funny thing about Hansen is that he started because he had retired to live on a boat and his wife wanted a smaller form factor spinning wheel so he made her one, and then a friend wanted one and now he runs a fairly large factory making e-spinners.

We have a Lendrum wheel as well, she doesn't like that as much as the schacht, might be partially in her headspace because the schacht is a nicer looking wheel as well ;) The Lendrum is a nicer plying wheel because we have the large plying flyer for it and you can put enormous amounts of yarn on that. We also have an old Canadian Production wheel from the 1860s-1890s (accurately dating it past that proved fairly impossible), its a nice wheel (after some significant fixing) but you have to be a really good spinner to use it - I can't use it at all, loml can use it on a good day but it only does fine yarn and that really fast. I know we have at least one more wheel but I can't remember what it is :\ I've been working on a manual portable mini wheel design I hope to make someday (its proven more than a bit complicated so there's still a lot of design and prototyping work to do).

I'm pretty horrible at knitting, so I leave that to the other half who is really good at it. It works out fairly complimentary, I make the tools and buttons and ..etc.. and she spins, weaves, knits stuff with it. If she needs a knot tied or a tangle untangled she comes to me, otherwise that's mostly her side.

Making some more hand combs is also on the list (we have a few, but there are other designs not available commercially...), again sourcing parts has been a problem - I want to get the evenly tapered teeth but haven't been able to find them (at any price - mostly I just don't even know what to search for).

The end-to-end story you're giving to the kids is pretty compelling and a lot of fun. It something we've largely lost sight of as a society so I'm a huge fan of what you're doing there! I didn't even know kindergarten had SS, maybe its regional but it should certainly be a thing everywhere imho.

I haven't turned any dogwood yet, I did make some branch buttons out of some trimmings and they came out quite nice. Its fairly uncommon around here even as a yard tree so I'll have to be lucky to run into any. I need to get some more of the mountain mahogany (Cercocarpus) my cousin south of me (other cousin not the one with the pistachio) has a bunch of it in his stash - that stuff is like iron once its dried and is remarkably tight grained, it does tend to be horribly twisty so getting straight pieces will be a challenge. I do have a rather large and straight piece of lilac I've been saving for a special project, which is also an amazingly nice wood as far as fine grained and pleasant to work but hard woods go if you can find pieces of any size.

Will definitely keep your offer in mind if/when we get back out that way, I sometimes get over to the Lenoir NC area (a bit east of Asheville) for work and occasionally sneak out to do a few days tour around the region and we've done a few longer trips in the area. I love the variety of trees in the forests around there compared to the west coast - really eye opening.

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#22

Re: Giving stuff - crops are genius!

Bob Macgregor

My daughter's crops (for eventing) have a retaining loop on the handle, so she is less likely to drop and lose them while jumping cross-country. Have you ever included the loop with your wooden handles?

Also, is it hard to get the old (original) handle off?

Bob

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#23

Wrist straps and handles

John K Jordan

>My daughter's crops (for eventing) have a retaining loop on the handle,

>so she is less likely to drop and lose them while jumping cross-country.

>Have you ever included the loop with your wooden handles?

>Also, is it hard to get the old (original) handle off?

The specs I got from the hunter-jumper team trainer, leader, and owner were specifically with no wrist strap. I don't know if that was a preference or requirement. However, the commercial crops we bought (also specified by the trainer) did not have wrist straps.

A strap would be easy to add but I would want it to be break-away to minimize wrist injury in a fall. The girls who ride here use crops with no strap but I do have a couple of cheap crops from the co-op with straps. I'll have to ask around. I know when I ride with a crop the strap just annoyed me, but all my horse ever jumped was an occasional log.

The specs I got for the team crops were basically: no impaling points, a significant flare at the end, textured grip, specific diameter and grip length, and overall competition length restrictions.

The crops I bought have unglued rubber handles that pull off with an effort but without great difficulty. (I buy them in bulk to get a better price.) They are very stiff fiberglass wound with what might be nylon braiding, and a sewn leather end.

I use the rubber handles on a couple of turning tools for small things. They fit nicely on Thompson 3/8" spindle and detail gouges and make them easy to hold and control. (No need for long or fat handles for small spindle work!)

JKJ

Re: Second lesson, first bowls

#24

Re: Wrist straps and handles

Bob Macgregor

Thanks, John. I asked my wife about this and she said she also avoids putting her hand through the strap, since she worries about entanglement in an accident. However, some cross-country riders like to have the strap so they are less likely to lose the crop out on the course some where. Obviously, somebody riding in a ring or arena wouldn't face this problem.