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Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

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Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#1

Rob Wallace

Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

Rob Wallace

I would like to provide my opinion that the 'Raygear Face Shield" being sold as personal protection equipment should NOT BE USED for woodturning activities. Despite its apparent ANSI Z87+ puncture rating for the plastic used, the design of the face shield obviously can not provide significant energy dissipation following impact of any wood or other larger fragments capable of being thrown into it during woodturning operations. I have not used (and will not use) this or any such device as PPE for woodturning, given its severe limitations on providing impact energy dissipation (I can foresee broken noses or worse if people rely on this for protection from fragmenting turning blanks.) This design *may* be acceptable for some of the listed applications (e.g. splash protection, blood/body fluid borne pathogens, lawn care particulates, etc.) that do not require energy dissipation or impact resistance, but my hope is that woodturners would not rely on (or trust) this form of PPE for woodturning activities. I disagree that it is useful for "any task where you need to protect your eyes and face" because not all tasks can be accommodated by light duty, non-energy-absorbing designs of face shields. PLEASE do not use this for woodturning!! (Ask yourself if you would like to be hit in the face directly on your eyeglass-style goggles with a flying chunk of wood from a spinning lathe.... )

http://www.ptreeusa.com/edirect_090514.htm

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#2

Lyle Jamieson

Thanks Rob, good call


Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#3

Re: Thanks Rob, good call

cranskin

Thought the same way when I saw the ad this am

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#4

Better than nothing...right?


Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#5

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

phillip Medghalchi

Rob, the owner of that site I think is asking for trouble if he is marketing it for that purpose. You know by laws of physics, there is no way the darn thing will even detract anything flying at it, yet alone protecting you from a flying piece of wood at God knows what speed and like a projectile? ther is no Frame around it and the only thing holding it on your face are those temples, so even if yo slightly push on the shield it has to go leaning on your face, yet alone force of a flying object.

I think for our purpose we need like football players helmet with strong cage around the face, even at that I still doubt the weight of it will be realistic to wear.

thanks for looking into this. I hope no wood worker or turner will buy this product and think they are protected.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#6

Understanding hazards & risk

Geoff Whaling

The short version – the X-shield is not suitable for the majority of wood turners. Better than nothing? Maybe. BUT at that price there other options that offer are far better value & protection for wood turners. I would not have an issue with a turner who only makes pens, spin tops, and small spindle work selecting & wearing an X-shield as PPE - a valid selection IMO.

Long version-

As wood turners we must understand the types of hazards we face from the projects we undertake and the severity of potential injuries. It is our responsibility - no excuses.

We must minimize risk from hazards by putting in place procedures (controls) that eliminate or at least reduce potential harm from hazards. PPE is one part of the system used to minimize residual risk.

We must also critically evaluate the ability of PPE to perform to a suitable standard in our intended application. Reliance upon Z87+, CSA Z94.3 & AS-NZS-1337.1-2010 does not guarantee that – only that the device should meet minimum impact testing standards.

The Raygear X-shields may meet the performance criteria of Z87.1 as Z87+ (impact rated) and may have limited applications for woodturning but not as claimed IMO.

"Woodworking: X-Shields protect your face and eyes from chips, fragments, dust and debris from wood cutting, ripping, turning and sanding. Avoid pain and injury from work chips, debris and fragments. Clear and smoke models are available in vented and non-vented styles and can be worn with hats, helmets and glasses. wood cutting, wood ripping, wood turning, wood sanding, jig saw, band saw, scroll saw, table saw, skil saw, lathe, drill press, electric sander." http://raygear.com/index.php/eye-safety-face-shield-face-protection-sun-fishing-recreational/why-x-shields-by-raygear.html

The X-shields suitability for wood turning is restricted to light turning operations that do not have potential to generate larger mass high speed particles.

We should examine some of the potential design limitations of the X-shield when in use for a significant number (majority?) of turners & turning projects,

No brow protection,

Can not be worn over prescription spectacles.

Easily dislodged in normal use from lateral impacts.

Optional security cord is required to hold in place.

Minimal protection from deflected small high speed particles entering from the side, top, bottom.

Lack of a harness (eg. safety helmet style).

Nose bridge and ear pieces will not provide impact dissipation from larger mass impacts permitting the face shield to contact the face.

Note the Z87, CSA Z94.3 & AS-NZS-1337.1-2010 standards all have requirements such as

“shall be considered to have failed - if contact is made with either eye of the test head form by the ball, frame, ocular or any part or fragment of these.”

A face shield may achieve a Z87+ rating if the face shield does not contact the eye. On my extensive reading I cannot find a reference to a test failure if the face shield makes contact with the face.

“It – ANSI/ISEA Z87.1-2010 – Eye and Face Protection Devices – advances the prospect of being able to sell a product that does meet the requirements but doesn't guarantee it,” Dan Torgersen, chairman of the Z87 Committee on Eye and Face Protection.

My choice - https://www.blackwoods.com.au/part/01327775/faceshield-complete-armadillo-clear Far better protection and a better buy.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#7

Tests rate the lens

Lloyd in Mississauga

From my limited understanding of the testing face shields and visors, they are testing to see if the projectile will penetrate the lens or not to get the rating. They do not seem to include the shock absorption consideration as part of the equation.

Is there a shock absorption rating that we may want to be looking for as well as the impact resistance?

Like was points out, it depends on what you are turning, but maybe we should be adjusting our thinking to include the shock absorption side of the equation as well when looking at or suggesting face shields. Not wanting to start any protection wars, but just try and rank some options.....

- Safety glasses can work in the simplest of cases for small turnings where there is very low potential of them flying apart. Then a dust mask can be added for dust protection

- a face shield like this one may be the first step up the ladder of protection, but does not provide impact & shock resistance of much more than wood chips and it dos not really have space for a dust mask under it.

- then you move up to the visors like Geoff added, where there is a head band and the visor attached to it. This has a bit more impact & shock resistance and has space for a low profile dust mask under it.

- then up to something like the Bionic style mask with a border around the visor to add a bit more impact and shock protection as well as the space for the dust mask.

- then up to the the Trend/Triton style powered masks that have the moderate impact and shock resistance and improved dust protection

- then the 3M style powered face mask with the protective helmet

- then the options seem to become more sports related, like goalie or catchers masks or riot helmets, but they may not allow for dust control.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#8

Eye/Face vs Energy Absorption

Steve Kniffen

I agree with Rob that this product probably shouldn't be used for woodturning except maybe when applying a CA finish on a pen or sanding.

Having said that, we as a community need to understand that products advertised as Eye and Face Protection are designed to protect us from "flying particles, molten metal, liquid chemicals, acids or caustic liquids, chemical gases or vapors, or potentially injurious light radiation." (29 CFR 1910.133a.1.) Nothing marketed as eye and face protection is designed or warrantied to provide ANY energy absorption or head protection. Some of them, like Bionic, Trend, and 3M do provide some energy absorption and may slow down chips and chunks, but that's not their job. Things that are designed for energy absorption are designed to deform in a predictable manner and amount in order to protect what's inside and reduce the amount of energy transmitted to the recipient. Collapsible front ends on cars deform to reduce velocity. Air bags reduce the amount of energy transmitted to the recipient.

Chips, chunks, faults, and things released from the chuck at a high rate of speed are best caught with the cage that came with your lathe. That's what it's designed for - to contain the big pieces. That's why it usually covers 135-180 degrees around the hazard zone. I know it gets in the way, but that's ok, we can all learn to turn around it.

Any type of PPE is evidence that your hazard abatement program has failed and that's ok because there are always hazards we cannot engineer out so we minimize the impact through what we do, how we do it, and what we wear. Staying out of the plane of motion, checking wood for defects before turning, turning at a reasonable speed, having sharp tools, having a clear work space around us, and a dozen other procedural ideas will all help. Don't rely on any type of PPE to save you from a 5 pound chunk of wood coming off your lathe at 2000 RPM.

Steve

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#9

PPE

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

When this

exploded on the lathe at about 1,200 RPM I was dutifully wearing a face shield. Pieces put dents in the HVAC duct overhead and flew a good 20' across the shop at somewhere close to light speed.

I, however, escaped without a scratch.

Did my trusty flip-up $15 face shield save my life? No. What actually protected me was making sure that I was standing outside the "Kill Zone".



Lest we forget, the single most effective piece of Personal Protection Equipment is neither over or in front of our ears, but rather between them. If you delegate your duty to protect yourself to someone or some thing else, you're cruisin' for a bruisin' if not worse.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#10

Re: Better than nothing...right? NO!

Ivan Clark

Anything that makes a user think that they are protected when they are not is MUCH worse than nothing.

With no protection, the light impacts have a chance to educate the user that they are in the line of impact when their body positioning is wrong.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#11

Re: PPE

Steve Kniffen

Well said! I've got a sign on the door to my shop that says "These machines don't have a brain, use yours!"

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#12

Your Sign

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In New Jersey

Would that be on the inside or the outside of the door? :D

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#13

Re: Better than nothing...right? NO!

mjonesrdg

I totally agree with you, Mr Clark. When we had the "Big Debate" here some months back, I argued this point: that whatever emboldens a person to stick their face in harms way is something like an "attractive nuisance". (My post above was facetious in nature) and we are better served with a measure of trepidation, than with one of machismo.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#14

Re-evaluate our thinking (long)

Geoff Whaling

Well said Steve.

The object of our leisure pursuit is to enjoy hand wood turning to create beautiful objects. We can't do that if we are inured. Injury prevention may well be a quite selfish act for the hobbyist turner, or very good insurance for the self employed turner.

Our aim is to not get struck in the first place - do not do things that have potential to create high mass & high velocity flying objects. If you choose to perform tasks that potentially can then learn to manage hazards & risk.

Despite numerous attempts by turners who have had wide exposure to industry injury prevention / hazard assessment / workplace safety etc programs we keep coming back to the ill informed and naive notion that PPE - a face shield will some how as a last resort miraculously save a turner from their own actions that led to the creation of the flying object. No apologies for my stance on this.

Add powerful VS lathes, blanks with "natural feature" into the equation, plus a general denial or complacency about the hazards, risk and severity of potential injuries associated with hand wood turning and we generate a worrying scenario.

As many have pointed out if a turner gets struck by a flying object with substantial mass, velocity, or far worse - both, they are going to be injured perhaps even killed! Sure well chosen PPE may reduce the severity of the injury. It may also transfer the injury from one part of the body to another, say from the face to the neck & spine if a riot helmet was used. At best it may only be their pride or confidence that takes the hit.

Wood turners must be realists & accept that hand wood turning has substantial hazards, risk & in certain scenarios potentially lethal hazards. Many, almost all, of those hazards have been engineered out of metal turning by removing the operator (turner) from the source of the hazards. But metal turners still get entangled in lathes, maimed & occasionally an operator of a lathe gets killed in the workplace, despite the injury prevention programs, engineered designs etc. No safety program can totally eliminate injuries because of the subjective hazards - people - but they are proven to substantially reduce the frequency & severity of injuries.

None of the hazards we face as hand wood turners are new. They are all well known, researched, controlled even eliminated in allied trades by engineered controls etc. An example - using reverse with a threaded spindle nose!!

What we must learn & teach new turners is that yes there are hazards & substantial risk in hand wood turning if we do not manage our total work environment. Those hazards can be controlled very effectively so that the level of risk becomes acceptable.

The level of risk, the frequency and severity of injuries is entirely determined by how well we view & assess hazards; control them through elimination, substitution etc; implement controls; evaluate and review our work methods.

We control that in our own workshops. We determine our destiny - no one makes us do anything "unsafe" in our own shops.

We need to educate with programs like SAFER

See - look for hazards associated with the "work" environment, machinery, tools, blanks, products, byproducts etc

Assess - the hazard & potential harm, potential injuries, fire etc; likelihood of harm occurring & severity of consequences. Short or long term harm?

Fix - use controls to eliminate, substitute, reduce hazards & harm.

Evaluate - is there any remaining risk - how can we reduce it further.

Review - how well did the work methods & controls perform?

Some tasks even though we implement rigorous controls, can still "possibly" go haywire, and can still carry a significant element of risk (residual risk) with in some scenarios potentially lethal consequences. The turner has the freedom & choice to assume that level of risk BUT they must also take into account how their actions may potentially affect their families etc.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#15

& retention in frames etc (nm)


Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#16

Re: Your Sign

Steve Kniffen

It's on the inside of the door, at eyeball height so as I close the door, I have to look at it every time I enter the shop.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#17

Re: Your Sign

Bart Leetch

Machines are not inherently dangerous but machine operators are.

Keep your cranial cavity out of your anal orifice & you may live to see another day.

Re: Raygear Face Shield and Woodturning PPE

#18

They are "inherently dangerous."

Geoff Whaling

Machines & tools are "inherently dangerous."

inherently dangerous - of, relating to, or being an activity or occupation whose nature presents a risk of grave injury without the use of and sometimes despite the use of special skill and care.

It all comes back to if they are not used with skill & care.

That is why instructions & warnings are in product manuals - manufacturers are aware of a machines potential to inflict harm to unskilled operators & to warn operators that they are "inherently dangerous".

The machines wood workers & turners use are certainly capable of maiming with instances of lethal injuries well documented.

Some machines are more "inherently dangerous" than other machines with the same purpose either through poor workmanship, materials, design, or they simply come from an era when there was not the technology or focus on "safety features." Some safety features have now become mandated, like guarding of machinery, electrical safety, door interlocks etc.

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