Bad experience

I agree

Terry Daniel

>I see both sides of this but I must agree that Arizona Silhouette is the loser. If losses were only 3 in 10,000 it is such a small percentage of sales that it would be better to absorb the loss than to have an unhappy customer. If the order was of greater value then insurance should not have been optional but for under a hundred bucks the risk/benefit ration is tipped toward omitting it for AS; but for the customer who is looking at 1/1 instead of 3/10,000 the risk is much greater. I have found that in recent years the hassle of getting a claim settled is greater than just replacing an item and absorbing it. UPS has become the worst for damaging goods and filing a claim with them for a significant amount can take months and may only end when you tell them that it is about to be turned over to the legal process. I have one supplier that will not ship anything by UPS anymore. The world is changing folks.

TD

Re: Bad experience

theeviltwinn

>This whole situation has been a real eye opener.

While I agree Bud was a real a@@ about the whole thing, I can't believe a business owner would attack a customer in a public forum.

Not a customer anytime soon

Mike

POOP

Barry Irby

>POOP-People Offended by Offended People. There used to be a talk show host here that ran a POOP report. He pointed out that sometimes we take offense at other people being offended. (How DARE you be offended that parents bought their under age kids beer to serve at their graduation party?)

I think I have joined the group. I have read much of this thread and am amazed it has had the "legs" to stay active for as long as it has, but I think I have to agree with Ruth, I'm Offended. I have not bought anything from AZ Silhouettes and don't know either of the people involved. I think there is enough posturing on both sides to go around. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was that the vendor took offense that his phone rang at 5 something AM, as if he were awakened from a deep sleep. He let that stand and several people responded that he might want to get a second line. If I read the posts correctly the customer actually talked to an answering machine. And he let that stand. Is he offended that someone USED his phone early in the morning? Does he think the PHONE needs rest?

I get business calls at odd hours. I either let them go to voice mail or answer them. I am sometimes amazed that someone called in the middle of the night, but then find out they are on the other side of the world or work the midnight shift and were sure they would get voice mail. Sometimes they are equally surprised that I answer at some odd hour.

But I don't go to Wood Central and post that they called me at an inconvenient (for me) time. Especially when I did not answer their call until it suited me.

I wonder how this would have worked out if it had been a significant order. We can afford to be offended over $82, but what about $820 or $8200? Can we scale our ethics up and down logarithmically?

$2 or 3 insurance for an $82 order and they have lost 3 in 10,000? I wonder if I would advise my customers to spend $20,000 to $30,000 to avoid $246 worth of risk. Might be more profitable to add a buck to the cost and "insure" them myself. Much better than having the longest thread I can remember on Wood Central.

Re: POOP

old griz

>I am taking a line on this, and if people don't like it too bad...

I have a real problem with all the people who are blasting Bill on this issue.. the shipping information is clearly on his website.. it is not hidden or deceptive.

He told the customer to contact the USPS, and the customer did not.. we not find out that the USPS tried to deliver, left notification to the customer and the customer did not follow up on it, but instead cancelled the order through his credit card company...

BUT STILL, everybody is blasting Arizona Silhouette as the bad guy in this scenario...

I have been doing business with AS for a long time and have never had a problem with an order or had a problem with speaking to Bill on the phone. If he was real busy, he might say he had to cut the call short, but that is understandable.

I am also intelligent enough to know that we live in different time zones and plan my calls accordingly. I also have a business and if someone wakes my up ringing the phone at 5AM (even if I let the answering machinge get it), I am also annoyed. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand time zones.

Bill has answered the "supposed" problems with this order. I may not have done it in the way he did, but he has also been blasted to hell and high water in this thread for a problem not of his doing.

REMEMBER who it was who fired the first shot and how it was fired.

I can virtually guarantee that you will find a e whole lot more satisfied customers of Arizona Silhouette than you will ever find dis-satisfied ones.

I have had my say on this matter. You can agree with me or not... I really don't care.

Re: Bad experience

Ron in Drums PA

>Bill B, you may think you are right, you may feel that you where wronged, but you are totally out of line posting his address on your website.

You need to apologize to Bud and remove his address in BOTH places on your web.

Too Much

George Labelle

>Hey Bill,

GROW UP!

Re: Bad experience

Lou Metcalf

>Wow, this is an incredible thread!

Let's see if I have this right. You make a purchase from a vendor who clearly states his shipping options and gives you, the buyer, the opportunity to make an economic decision...UPS, USPS, etc,... snail mail Express Mail, or what-have-you...insured or not insured. They do not force you to take any particular option.

You select one and it does not work out for you. You then go on the offensive against the vendor? What the heck are you thinking? You made the choices. Accept the responsibility.

As for those of you who think the vendor should always make the customer whole--get real. Without implying anything with regard to Bud's integrity (I have no idea who he is), there are plenty of scam artists out there. I have been in sales for nearly 30 years and believe that the customer is NOT always right, but the customer is always the customer. There are also customers who are not worth having. I've let several irritate and agitate my competition.

Finally, as far as posting names and addresses, if you are ashamed of your comments or afraid of the responses maybe you shouldn't grab the spotlight in a public forum.

This thing has been dragging on for 5 weeks--well past the point of relevance. The facts have been presented. Get on one bus or the other, but they both need to get on down the road.

Re: I'm Offended.

MrsH

>Not saying this is what happened...but it seems odd to me that the guy didn't bother to hunt down the package (after finding out that the United States POst office says it was delivered) yet, CAN take the time to cancel his credit card payment. SO, NOW--- all he has to do is go to the post office with his tracking number, pick up his package, which he now has for FREE. AS has no recourse unless they want to go to the trouble to prove it WAS picked up, then challenge the credit card company... THAT is a bit much. Ya'll may not have liked his customer service in that he didn't automatically give a refund (don't think THAT will happen with ANY mail order people when there is proof of delivery!) and the customer had to do a little leg work to make SURE there wasn't a mistake somewhere. But..>I KNOW such things happen as Charge Backs (which is basically what this is, it is illegal & happens ALL the time) as its happened to me several times on eBay with Paypal & now I require delivery confirmation on ALL my packages, so I might prove I DID DO MY PART. Where that package goes between MY house and THe BUYERS house is now in the USPS's hands.

But its easy to say "oh.. you ship 10,000 so why not suck it up and go with this one?" who's to say he HASN"T done the same with other customers? But it makes NO business sense to send someone another order FOR FREE when its proven a package has been delivered. Ignorance of how the post office does D/C isn't a legitimate beef against a business as the actual DELIVERY is not their business, unless they are hand-delivering it.

correction.

MrsH

>I see that the package was returned as undeliverable... so my apologies for that! Even so, when I get packages at home, I get the little orange or yellow slips telling me when to come pick up my package. And if I ignore it enough, they ship it back. it says THAT on the yellow/orange slip!!!!

I DO still stand behind the fact people DO scam others (esp small businesses as its easier to threaten them & hurt them if they don't do what you demand) and NO, not saying thats the case here. I just think some hot-headedness happened here and it was brought public, unfortunately by the one who couldn't pick up their package that WAS shipped by AS. We've never had a problem with AS and would choose a smaller company such as theirs & others like them over the chains ANY DAY!!!!

Re: Bad experience

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>There has been a lot of discussion on this subject, and a lot of it is aimed at one person or the other, as if one is right and the other is wrong. The rest of us reading have the facts as they have been presented by both sides, but then both sides have a vested interest in presenting themself in the best light, and we cannot consider either 100% objective.

This is no longer a case of who is right and who is wrong, but it is still a case of doing the right thing. Without making any comments on Bud's behaviour, I find it astonishing that a businessman would go after a customer in the way that Bill at AS has done. I have had some truly pain in the butt customers myself, but I have not seen the need to rebut them publically. Now, it may be that Bill at AS thinks he needs to do this thing, but by this point what is the point? All he is going to do is to come off as vindictive.

Again, regardless of Bud's behavior, which I do not countenance, Bill has behaved just as badly, and while we may not be buying anything from Bud in the near future, or ever, Bill has a real interest in presenting himself as someone who is going to take care of the customer when problems arise. This whole sorry affair definitely casts him in a bad light, and whether or not that is true, it is the perception he is creating. I have publicly excoriated people with whom I have disagreed in the past, but not from a business point of view. One cannot do that and stay in business. There have got to be a lot of people reading this who are thinking, what will happen to me if I do business with this guy and have a problem? Bill, regardless of what Bud did, you have screwed up royally on this one.

Bill

Re: Bad experience

Bill Crommett

>No one said so, but it sounds to me that this thread was turned on a mini-lathe and sanded to a fine finish with 36 grit cloth.