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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

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Bad experience

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Bad experience

#1

Bad experience

Bud Gabaree

>I know we don't slander vendors here, but its not really slander if all you speak is the truth, right?

I made a nearly $100 order from Az. Silhouettes on the 29th of April. Still have not received it though there is a USPS tracking order that says it was delivered on May 2nd.

All I know is that I did not get my order and the "proprietor" could only offer this sage advice; "shoulda had it insured". Perhaps there are vendors for whom insurance is absolutely necessary.

Apparently, customer service is shipped out the door with the package. I was told I have no choice but to eat the loss.

Bottom line - buyer beware. I know I'll never grace that doorstep again.

Good luck to those of you that do.

Bud

Re: Bad experience

#2

Re: Bad experience

Sean Troy

>That has nothing to do with the shipper. It's all USPS 's fault. Why don't you contact them? They said it was deleivered. It was obviously shipped. How does that make it Az. Sil's fault?

Re: Bad experience

#3

Re: Bad experience

Jim D. Clayton, NJ

>Bud,

Hate to tell you this but I side with the vendor on this one. You can not expect him to eat the loss if the tracking number says it was delivered to your address. Insurance is thru the company doing the delivery, in this case USPS, not thru the vendor. If you did not pay for the insurance then it was your gamble and your loss.

I would check with the neighbors to see if it was miss delivered. Had a package left accross the street last summer. The lady that lives there is not home often and she forgot about it till I asked her.

Jim D.

Re: Bad experience

#4

Re: Bad experience

scott hogsten

>I think I would have to side with the vendor. Please check with USPS and see if it was actually delivered to your address. Also make sure that the driver didn't stick the package somewhere that you wouldn't normally look. Seriously I've had packages left in an unused sidedoor, inside a car on the driveway, inside a grill, etc. The grill story is true and it was a $3500 camera that required a signature, apparently my grill can sign for me.

Scott

Re: Bad experience

#5

Re: Bad experience

JHS

>You should file a clain with UPS. I believe UPS ground shipments are automatically insured for $100

Re: Bad experience

#6

Re: Bad experience

JHS

>OOps! I misread USPS for UPS. The postal service does not have autmatic insurance.

Re: Bad experience

#7

Re: Bad experience

George Van in WI

>Bud, I would have to side with Az. Silhouette, they did everything they were responsible to do. I would be upset with USPS for the problem and ask them to look further into the matter. I have had excellent service and support from Az. Silhouette.

Re: Bad experience

#8

Re: Bad experience

Les Robison

>Ask USPS to provide you with the proof of delivery. Have then track the driver down and validate the delivery address. I have had this happen with both USPS & UPS. In each case they delivered to the wrong address. They arranged to pick the package back up and deliver to me.

Re: Bad experience

#9

No so

Dominic Greco at home in Richboro, PA

>

Perhaps you should take the advice of the others who have responded here and contact the United States Postal Service. They are the people you have the problem with. NOT Arizona Silhouette.

And just for the record, I've ordered many items from Bill Baumbeck aka: the Proprietor of Arizona Silhouette. I never had any problems with shipping. In fact, I got everything within 3 days of ordering. That's from Arizona all the way to PA.

Bill is also one of the nicest and most knowledgeable people to deal with. I believe his advice be straight forward, honest, and welcomed. He will continue to get my business.

Re: Bad experience

#10

Re: No so

ruth in So. Cal

>Bud, I had a similar experience. I have to add that I am amazed at the number of people who post questions about ' have you ever dealt with 'X'; are they a good company to deal with...the resulting glowing words are usually endless. However, when someone wants to post about a bad experience, as happened recently with Don Pencil, the list seems to be against them...and hollers loud and clear about negative feedback.....strange but true. In this instance, I have this to offer: When the same thing happened to me I contacted AS and Bill said, 'sorry, you didn't insure, follow up with USPS'. I felt that he could have certainly done more based on the number of shipments he must complete, and his relationship with his local post office. I believe customer service is paramount, and, that it is in his best interest to assist customers who have missing parcels. I know the list will come down on me for this and say it wasn't anything to do with him it was USPS. I go back to my key point - he ships constantly, must have a great relationship with his P.O. and to say ' you didn't insure' doesn't mean he can't try and help sort out the problem. But, that's my 2 pence.

Here's what I found out when I made further enquiries: The PO uses the 'delivered' info only to mean that it was delivered to their own local PO, not to the address of the receiver....strange but true. And, there could have been dozens of packages that were received at the same time, none having anything to do with your parcel, but they are all marked 'delivered to your address'.....because they don't mean YOUR address, they mean the PO address.

If you wait a week your parcel will arrive.......especially if you print off the tracking info, go in and see them a couple of times and tell them how many other parcels you have received and not had a problem.

I have only had this happen with AS and suspect it has to do with their method of shipping.

Re: Bad experience

#11

Re: No so

RonZ

>I agree with Ruth and I have this to offer. I run a business and I make mistakes, we all do. The difference is is that one should learn from them. If I ship a product from here [Israel] to the USA, I'm first grateful that I'm trusted and saecond, take full responsibility for the package. There has only been about five times in as many years that I have had problems. I send out the customer another package and do the tracing and filing on my end. Perhaps this is the same in the USA that the sender is responsible not the receiver. This is why I absorb the cost and send everything registered. I notice that when it's registered, it somehow doesn't get 'lost'. I understand that you can pay a bit more and get a signed service that the receiver must sign. I would make that my SOP for mailing. Lastly, if this has happened before then either insure and swallow the cost or emphesis at the time of purchase that it is prudent to add insurance.

Re: Bad experience

#12

Re: Bad experience

Tom Mullane

>All I can tell you is that I have been doing business with Bill for a long long time now and have never ever had a problem with him... on the rare occassion that part of a kit is missing, I receive the replacement in a couple of days... he has always been there when there is a problem and goes out of his way to take care of his customers...

Re: Bad experience

#13

Re: No so

Bud Gabaree

>Ruth,

I am so grateful that someone finally sees the other side of the coin. I was getting depressed that so many thought I was to blame for expecting more from a supplier. What ticks me off the most is the attitude at the other end of the phone line.

After being chastised for calling at the wrong time, from the start the tone was "why are you bothering me with this?"

My point to all of the responders who are so enamored with this guy is wait till it happens to you. We'll see how many are still are thrilled with paying their money then going on an adventure to find the package. Why should I, and not the supplier find this thing? I didn't ship it, I just paid for it.

My opinion remains the same, never again.

Re: Bad experience

#14

Perspective here?

Ruth Niles

>I really was going to stay out of this thread but........

I can see both views; I shipped a LOT (eBay antique stuff, website CLTL, etc.) and there is no such thing as having a good relationship with your local PO after shipping. My local Postmaster loved ME and we talked flowers, kids, etc. but once a package is posted for deliver, it's as much out of her hands as it was mine. Once I got an email with a picture of a box with tire tracks on it (smashed of course).....am I responsible? the local PO? the delivering PO? I didn't replace that order but did re-ship one that never arrived.

As to individual companies (big or small) isn't this similar to, say, auto dealers. For example, my son has a new Ford truck and I have a Ford station wagon. He has had problem after problem and swears he'll never own a Ford again and anyone who does is asking for trouble. I have not had a single problem and will replace this one with a like model (without my son's approval!).

If you've never had a problem, you stick with the supplier. If you've had a problem that upsets you, you find a different supplier. I like to make up my own mind.

Ruth made a good point though, if everyone likes it when we post compliments, why knock it when someone posts a complaint? I don't know the answer, she just made me think.

Well, that was more than I intended to say, guess it's around .57 worth rather than .02!

Re: Bad experience

#15

Re: Bad experience

Mike Sloan

>Personally, I would not do business again with a vendor that did not take responsibility for getting the package into my hands, as long as the shipping method was his/her regular method, and not some special method that I requested.

When I order by mail order, I am taking a chance on someone who I do not know, and have never seen. I am also taking a chance on the quality of the service and the responsibility of the vendor. I am taking a chance that the vendor will pack and ship the product in an appropriate way. I should not have to fight with the service provider selected by the vendor to deliver my product in the case that something is wrong with the delivery. I should not have to ask the vendor to do something special (e.g., insure or register the package, or send the package using a different shipper)that the vendor does not normally do in order to ensure that I receive the package. The only exception would be a vendor that says clearly (e.g., not in the fine print) "WE DO NOT INSURE THE PACKAGE, IF YOU WANT TO GUARANTEE ARRIVAL, BUY INSURANCE, IT COSTS xxxx EXTRA. Don't know if this vendor did that or not.

You can believe that Lee Valley, and other vendors with good reputations would make this right for the buyer. Actually, I doubt that Lee Valley would ship via USPS for just this type of reason. The shippers that I know they use (UPS and Fedex) both have insurance and reliable tracking.

Hopefully, this package will show up in a day or two or five.

Just a buyers perspective, with no knowledge of the vendor at all.

Mike

Re: Bad experience

#16

Re: No so

Bill in Florida

>Bud,

As a person who is in the mail-order business too I see both sides of this.

In my opinion a merchant should insure everything they ship because if it is lost, stolen or damaged the customer will expect to be made whole with either a replacement or a refund. This is a bit expensive for small dollar items and many times a merchant will just �self insure� low dollar shipments.

If a merchant informs a customer that insurance is optional, extra, etc and the customer declines the insurance then the customer unfortunately is responsible if a loss occurs.

You don�t mention in your message if insurance was offered but in looking at the website of the merchant I found it fairly clear insurance is extra.

When insurance is involved the carrier is always liable to the shipper, not the customer. It is the merchant�s problem to deal with the claim. You would be shocked to learn most carriers try and only pay you your actual cost for a lost or damaged item. The Post Office is also the hardest of all to collect from.

I have seen mis-delivery happen with every carrier I have ever used. Just dealt with this last week. I would call or stop in to your local post office and see what the postmaster can do to resolve the problem. There is a good chance they may be able to retrieve the package and get it to you. Most likely if someone else got it in error they really don�t want it. This may be something you expect the merchant to do but it is a lot easier to handle from your end since that seems to be where the problem happened.

As Ruth stated, to think a merchant has a good relationship with the Post Office because they ship a lot is wrong. This is the government and there is not much anyone at the local branch can do to make exceptions.

Bill

Re: Bad experience

#17

Re: Bad experience

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>I was going to stay out of this thread too, but then I thought, why not jump in? I have an opinion, and I really don't care if some other people here like my opinion or not, so here goes. To those of you who are my friends, I hope you understand that this is not directed at any of you personally.

From a technical and absolute point of view, the problem is with the Post Office. The package was shipped from the supplier, and apparently lost by someone in the PO. It may not even be lost yet, it may just be taking the scenic route. We have shipped out hundreds upon hundreds of DVDs via the PO, and while only one has gone missing permanently, several have taken weeks to make a journey that should have been days.

From the purchaser's point of view, he is out, and he is the only one out. He paid his money, and for whatever reason, he did not receive his merchandise. The shipper is entirely within his rights to say, "sorry, you should have insured it, you are SOL." But is that good customer service?

I get people writing or calling me on a regular basis telling me that their DVD arrived in pieces. That is not my fault. Each one is checked to make sure that it is secure in its little holder, and then packaged properly and with reasonable care to withstand normal handling. Well guess what? Some of them aren't handled normally, and they are smashed beyond belief. The PO is to blame, not me, but they are not going to do anything about it. So now I have a choice. I can PO my customer (so to speak) or I can take care of him or her at a loss to my profit and loss sheet and gain the goodwill of a person who paid me their money in good faith that I would see their product successfully delivered.

At the very least the shipper should be aware that this is a potential problem for the shipment and then either suggest that the customer pay for insurance, build the insurance into the shipping cost, or if it is big enough, insure it himself to avoid the problem of a large order that goes missing. I made the decision that it is not cost effective to insure every DVD going out the door. It costs less to replace the ones that are damaged. When wholesale orders go out the door, I insure them at my own expense just because I do not want to have to eat the cost of a bunch of DVDs, and I certainly do not want an unhappy customer. When a bowl or other commissioned piece goes out the door, insurance is added in to the cost of shipping.

Finally I have one more thing to say that is somewhat related to this thread, but also goes back to some other threads. I get really annoyed at this attitude that people are not supposed to post about a bad experience. Every single one of us screws up from time to time, except for the liars in the crowd. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of pressure to get the person in question to make right on the deal, and sometimes it just doesn't happen.

If a person needs or wants to post about their bad experience, two things seem to happen. One, several others will write in to say that they have never had a bad experience with the same vendor. That is fine as far as it goes, but often it does not stop there. It is either implied or stated outright that the original person is either wrong, misinformed, or to use Wally's word, a complainer. I cannot type the words I would like to use to respond to that attitude. Two, someone will post to say that we really should not be writing negative comments about a vendor, a store, a person who is not keeping up with their promises, whatever. Then the person who wrote the initial posting is made to feel like a pariah, an outcast who has done something wrong to offend the collective.

Bud posted about a negative experience. We can all read, can't we? Everyone here who has the intelligence to sign onto their computer can read his posting and decide for themselves whether or not they agree with his perception of the situation, and every one should be intelligent enough to determine whether or not he is valid in his perceptions. And, someone else's good experience, or lack of a bad experience DOES NOT INVALIDATE THE BAD EXPERIENCE OF ANY PARTICULAR PERSON. Did everybody get that? Any part anyone doesn't understand that they need explained with smaller words?

I had some negative comments posted about me and my response to DVD orders a while ago. I welcomed the exchange because it brought to my attention a problem of which I was unaware, and I needed to deal with. EVEN IF it had been a problem with me myself, I would not have gotten on and whined about how improper it was for someone to complain about my and my service. But there are those here who seem to think that is proper procedure, and that if someone here expresses an opinon not in keeping with the herd, they need to be "corrected". Again, I cannot type the words I would like to use to respond to that attitude.

Back to Bud. He posted about his problem. He may not be as accurate as he could be in directing his ire, but how many people are going to read his post and say, "Gee, maybe I won't do business with AS because the PO might lose my stuff?" Actually, I think he did all of you AS people a favor, because now you know that your order is going to go out through the PO uninsured and you might be next on the list to lose something. So instead of getting down on the guy, you should be thanking him for exposing a potential problem. This in no way denigrates the AS people other than to call into question their method of shipment. It is they after all, who choose the PO as their shipper. They could go with UPS and spend an extra few bucks, but they have made the conscious choice to use the USPS, and that is a potential problem that neds to be exposed.

Most of the people here know that I am an easy going, happy kind of a guy, but there are a couple of times lately where I could cheerfully smack a few people in the head with a custom turned stick. And if anyone would like to smack me back, I welcome the exchange.

Bill

Re: Bad experience

#18

Re: Bad experience

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>Mike,

I am sure the Lee Valley does not use USPS (United State Postal Service) because they are in CANADA. ;>)

Mark

Re: Bad experience

#19

There's another aspect...

Rod Peterson -- Ormond Beach

>Call me slow or a dull thinker, but the value in these threads for me is the perspective I get from the responses. I almost always read the OP and come away thinking, "jeez, what a scam artist," and almost always, within a few minutes will be a post or three offering another way of looking at the problem (in this case that it was the carrier that should be contacted).

In the end, we usually wind up with a well rounded discussion with the fickle finger of fate pointed in the appropriate direction.

Rod

P.S. Bill, did you get my email from 7 May, or did it get lost in the noise? Resend?

Re: Bad experience

#20

Re: Bad experience

Carole in VA

>Thank you for saying what I have been too lazy to organize in my mind and type!

Re: Bad experience

#21

Re: There's another aspect...

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>Hi Rod

Either it never arrived, or I inadvertently deleted it. I checked my deleted items folder, but it only goes back as far as 5/9. If you would be kind enough to resend it, I will respond as soon as I can.

Thanks.

Bill

Re: Bad experience

#22

Re: Bad experience

Mike Sloan

>Hi Mark,

All of the Lee Valley packages that I receive appear to be shipped from "Lee Valley Tools U.S." with a shipping address in Ogdenburg New York. (smile). I raise this only because it is an opportunity to thank LV for great service.

I have a package from them in front of me that I am sending back, because they shipped out a duplicate order to me when a package did not arrive on time, and I was desperate for a part.

The original package was supposed to be sent Fedex, but got misdirected to UPS instead, and arrive about a week later than expected.

Lee Valley saved my bacon by sending the duplicate package via overnight service, even though they could have said, "lets wait a week to see if the original arrives", and it would have.

By the way, the return shipping is via USPS. I don't know why they use Fedex and UPS to ship out and USPS to return, but suspect it's a reliability vs. cost issue. More important to be reliable to the customer. Cost more important on the way back.

Mike

Re: Bad experience

#23

And another thing

Bill Grumbine (Kutztown PA)

>I forgot about this in my first posting. Just because the P.O. has received it at the local office does not mean it is really there, or that it has moved on from the previous location. Several years ago we ordered a Dell computer and it was shipped via the USPS. Part of it arrived and part of it did not, but it was all marked as received at our local PO. When I asked the postmaster about this, he told me that when a truck comes in, there are only two options on the computerized manifest. He can either received it all or not receive it all. He has no option to receive the stuff that actually came and not receive the stuff that did not come.

I had to deal with the same sort of system back in the bad old days when I was a warehouse manager at Circuit City. If a truck was short $5000 worth of merchandise, I still had to receive it, and then contact the distribution center to get it straightened out. It is not a good system, but it appears to be the one in place at the PO as well.

Bill

Re: Bad experience

#24

Re: Bad experience

Bud Gabaree

>Thanks to all who are able to see both sides.

My initial rant was the result of an extremely frustrating discussion with the owner. My post immediately followed and was slanted the way it was because of the call. A sympathetic ear or offer of assistance would have changed the whole dynamic.

I understand that the USPS dropped the ball here and I had fully intended to follow up with them. I called the supplier first because I thought it to be the easier route. I did not expect to be so emphatically shut down, and I was PO'd.

What stikes me as funny are the glowing responses that point out a lack of problems with any supplier. Of course they have good things to say, they haven't had a problem!

Its when something like this happens that you see a supplier's true colors. They have a choice to make; support your customer and ensure future business or allow him/her to twist in the wind.

Well I'm twisting away.

For all who like this place, bully for you.

Fortunately for all, these are my last words on the subject. End rant.

Bud

Re: Bad experience

#25

Re: Bad experience

Dave Anderson Chester, NH

>Hi Bill As usual, you write a cogent and well organized discussion of the issues involved. I ship via the postal service to my customers and have had generally good experiences. For me as a part time business, UPS or Fedex are very inconvenient to use and the PO is the only reasonable choice if I wish to ship in a timely manner. It could take me 3 days sometimes to get to a UPS outlet during hours they are open. I automatically insure my packages and unfortunately it is reflected in my shipping charges. I made this choice when I started selling to people I didn't know and had no way of tracking whether or not they got a package. I also didn't want to eat the losses from not insuring and having to reship more product to make up for thee loss. In the only insurance claim I've had to deal with (a package to Canada), the paperwork and claim proceedure has been manageable but slow. As soon as the customer informed me of a problem I immediately reshipped the product. My personal approach is to satisfy the customer as quickly as possible and catch up on the paperwork and recoup my loss later. After all, in the final analysis what you are selling is two things-- your product and your personal reputation. Any business person who doesn't understand this and takes the easy way out is being short sighted and will eventually either wake up to this lose customers. Word of mouth on the various forums, throough clubs and guilds, or in any other type of gathering will either make or break you. The guy from AS is well within his rights to do as he dis, but I would categorized him as foolishly short sighted.

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