Any VB36 Owners?

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Hi Ted,

The VB36 is an outstanding bowl lathe, perhaps the best around for this purpose. I don't however, consider it the best choice for large hollow forms for a couple of reasons, both related to its lack of a traditional bed. One, it would not be easy to adapt most of the traditional restrained boring bar systems, as most require a secondary tool rest that is mounted to a traditional bed rails (there are a couple of exceptions that use a tool rest mount only, that might work). Second, I am unaware of any way to use a steadyrest, as again these mount to tradional bed rails. As both restrained/laser guided systems and steadyrests are often seen as desirable for large and deep hollowing, I think the VB design would prove limiting. For bowls or smaller hollow forms where steady rests and the like are unecessary, the VB should be simply wonderful.

I'm sure either Terry or Greg Jensen can offer more detail based on their personal experience with these lathes.

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

John Lucas

>Ted

I would have to look at the Stubby if I was doing large hollow vessels. You have the advantages of a tailstock and a shortbed lathe depending on what you need to do and how you set up the lathe.

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

tdaniel

>John, I don't think the bed on the Stubby is long enough for a captured hollowing rig and a steady rest. Maybe someone who uses one can tell us for certain. I think any lathe you choose will have some good points and some shortcomings. My feeling is a turning shop needs two lathes, just like we have a tablesaw and a chopsaw. Each one does an area very well and falls short in other areas. I do probably 85% of my work on my VB but there are times when I go to the VL300 to start a project, then switch to the VB and there are times when I do just the opposite.

TD

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

James Brooks in GA.

>I have a VB 36. I started out turning bowls only then gradually started to turn some hollow vessels. I did purchase a short tail stock that is helpfull sometimes, although for the biggest part they are ways around it. I also built my version of the jameison hollowing rig with a laser. I built a stand alone stand rather than a bed attachment. It works well with no problems. You only need to make sure that it is stable and heavy enough to do the job.

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

John Lucas

>Terry

I would have to look but I think the bed extends to 34" Also you get two tool rest banjo's and I think you can install one of them on the end as well as at least 4 other locations. This makes it very adaptable.

I'll agree though there isn't one lathe that will do it all.

Re: Stubby

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Terry,

John Jordan works a captured hollowing set-up on his 750 with plenty room [see pic]. With the bed extended and the secondary tool rest employed, you can get the capture bars set at more than 40" from the headstock. It is also not hard to mount the auxilliary bed to the end of the main bed and extend to 50". However on either the Stubby or the VB that capture fixture can also be mounted on a satellite stand and placed most anywhere since all it does is control the torque.

Mark

Re: Stubby

John Lucas

>Great shot Mark. Another handy feature is being able to swing the bed. I often have to either change the position of the secondary tool rest or change tools or both to reach some inaccesible spot on the inside. With the Stubby you could swing the bed a little if needed.

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

Mike Johnson

>I learned bowl making from Terry on a VB-36 and really like that lathe. However, my shop will always be limited to one large lathe, so I chose the Vicmarc VL-300 long bed with an outboard attachment. Turning outboard, it is very similar to the VB. Plus, there is a 52" bed and tailstock that gives plenty of room for hollowing tools, steady rests, or other attachments. The tailstock is also handy for starting large out of balance blanks or natural edged bowls.

Re: Stubby

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>John,

Haven't seen your name on the Stubby Group. You have one (want to join)?

I've had my 1000 for almost 2 years, and have to say I've never needed to rotate the bed for access on a piece. Have had the aux-bed clamped on ever-which-away, but no rotation thus far. Maybe I'm just "chicken."

Mark

Re: Stubby

John Lucas

>Mark

I don't own a stubby just drool a lot. I have several friends that have them. They won't let me stand too close. It't contagious. It was very difficult for me to come up with the money for the Powermatic. I looked long and hard at the the Stubby but just couldn't figure out a way to make that much money off my turnings. I don't live in an area where you can sell $1000 bowls. In fact $400 bowls sit there for months and months before they sell.

Re: Stubby

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Yeah, I hear you.

Took a lot of soul searching and such before I could bring myself to spend that much money on something "just for me."

Funny, I have a neighbor who was in the WTC on 9/11 (I was due to be there the following day) and barely survived. 2 weeks later he called in the contractors to build a big deck and pool on the house, something he had wanted for years. When I asked him why then, he said "I'm through with waiting for 'some day' on things that will make our life more enjoyable. Someday never comes."

M

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>Here's a photo a VB dealer sent me. Is this the sort of setup you're talking about, Lyn?

Best, Ted

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

Ted Owen, Pittsburgh

>Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I appreciate it.

Tough decision, but I ended up with Standard Tailstock. What I spent on that tailstock would have bought another complete lathe, but I think this will work out OK.

Delivery likely in early May. Till then, and maybe after then, too excited to sleep...

Best, Ted

Re: Any VB36 Owners?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>Hi again,

Sorry for the delay, I missed see your reply. This does appear to be one way to accomplish a secondary tool rest, via essentially a secondary mount for a support arm mounted to the rear. I can't tell from the photo if this is a user modification or something new that the VB folks have developed. I'm can't tell if it would be as stable as one mounted to a traditional bed, though likely it is stable enough, though I do wonder if it is up to managing my prefered Keith Clark hollowing rig. Of course, if it is not a VB option, you will be required to make the modification for yourself, which may or may not be an issue for you. Regardless, it gives an idea of what is possible.

This leaves the steadyrest, which is almost an essential for long tall vases, though not always of importance for squatter forms. You often need a steadyrest for longer forms like vases to both prevent the flex that can occur as a long form is hollowed to thin walls, and also as a safety feature to control for the leverage force that a tool tip pressed against the distal walls of a hollow form can generate.

I've seen the photos of some proposed tables which hook over the round bars of the VB rails. They don't impress me as adequate for the weight and stability required for a steady rest. Perhaps a welded up table that mounted with a split shaft collar that could be bolted up to encircle the VB rails. I'm sure it could be done, with enough thoughfulness to design and expenditure of money.

None of this is to detract from the outstanding qualities of the VB lathe, which are considerable. Just a recognitiion that it is not a lathe whose design is conciliatory to large deep hollowing. If you should be interested in developing a design for steadyrest and secondary tool rest mounts, I'd be happy to explore some ideas about this privately.

Re: Has anyone actually measured the torque?

Al Crandall --NE of Indy--

>A club member has a VB and uses a Jameison style shop made deep hollowing bar on it. For the secondary rest he uses a set of adjustable metal shelves. When he wants to deep hollow, he scoots the shelves to the end of the lathe and positions them perpendicular to the spindle centerline. He lays the rectangular loop on the appropriate shelf and proceeds. When I asked about the lack of an upper restraint, he said it wasn't necessary. A catch would momentarily lift the end of the boring bar and tilt the loop a fraction of an inch, but it settled back in an instant and the noise was considered to be a part of the hollowing process.

I wonder if, as a whole, we turners are ascribing more torque to these systems than they are actually subjected to. Swan neck tools produce nearly no torque, and a 2" tool offset has a short lever arm to work on a boring bar which weighs several pounds.

Re: Has anyone actually measured the torque?

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>An interesting reply. I personally have never felt uncomfortable using a Stewart style armbrace, yet you hear stories of folks who assert the while using one a catch darn near resulted in their arm being torn off. Others have asserted that a restrained hollowing rig was essential for them because the forces of freehand hollowing were just too punishing.

I suspect we are actually looking at several forces, some rotational, some back and forth horizontal chatter, some fairly directly downward, and on occasion, some being vertical when a tool gets swept over and up the opposite side (such as when cleaning up the nub at the center). I suspect the forces involved can be potentially fairly great, but likely vary according to how refined is one's technique and how large is one's tool tip.

In the case of the Clark hollowing rig that I am so fond of, their is also the weight of the thick heavy boring bars and the restraint collar. As you know, the deeper the hollowing, the thicker the bar to reduce flex. The weight can get to be considerable with a long 1.25 or 1.5 inch diameter, 40 inch long bar. Being able to bear that weight more closely down onto the support surface (i.e., rails) seems preferable to me compared to a lighter arm pivoted from a point quite a distance away. Of course this applies mostly do very deep hollowing with heavy duty equipment, but then that capability is what many would expect from a lathe in this price range and other capabilities.