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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

DNA woes...

Posts

DNA woes...

#1

DNA woes...

DWFII

>Well, I have run into a problem with my first attempt at the alcohol drying process.

Let me set the stage...I rough turned some black locust that had been sitting in the log for about a year. Three blanks.

Then I rough turned one of then to a bowl with wall thicknesses of about one inch. The rim was pretty close to the pith and I cut the bolw to eliminate the pith. I thought I had cut off enough. There is nowhere on the bowl that the ends of the annular rings are less than several inches apart. Nevertheless, I had seen some tiny cracks on the side of the blank before I turned off the pith and roughed the bowl. At which point everything looked good.

So then, I soaked the bowl in DNA for roughly 72 hours, let it dry for one hour, and wrapped the bowl in a brown paper bag as per Dave's instructions. After one day of drying on the rack, the inside of the bowl was severely cracked and when I stripped off the paper bag, the outside was also cracked. I am so disappointed. I wish I had coated the end grain in Anchorseal and let the bowl sit another six months...DNA drying or no.

Now the question(s) is...what did I do wrong?

Is it the black locust? Was it doomed from the beginning either because if its nature or because of the tiny cracks radiating from the pith?

Would other types of wood respond better?

Did I do something wrong in the way I handled the bowl after I soaked it?

My shop is heated but not hot. Should I have stored it outside?

More paper? (I only used one layer) Would Anchorseal work as well as the paper bag?

I would appreciate opinions or advise. At this point, I am reluctant to entrust the two other bowls to the DNA drying process. Guess I'll have to look for some dry wood on Ebay. [sigh]

DW

In the high desert of central Oregon.

Re: DNA woes...

#2

Re: DNA woes...

Ruth in S.Cal

>I know that there are a variety of opinions about the length of time to soak, so I won't address that. Did you coat the outside with anchorseal before you wrapped it? That's what I think the instructions call for. If you go to the articles link, perhaps you could read the instructions again.

r

Re: DNA woes...

#3

A guess

MikeinCapeMay

>If you saw cracks before turning them I'm going to propose that they extended, even microscopically into the part of the balnk that you saved and turned. The drying just caused them to continuing what they naturally do, continue to spread apart. Just a guess.

Re: DNA woes...

#4

Re: DNA woes...

DWFII

>Ruth,

I followed the discussion ...initiated by Dave Smith (in December?) and copied them to a text file. Nowhere is Anchorseal mentioned...although, like you, I kind of think it might be a natural.

Maybe Dave will weigh in on this discussion...particularly with regards tot he Anchorseal.

DW

Re: DNA woes...

#5

Re: DNA woes...

georgetroy

>I wet turn my natural edges and end grain vases and urns. After cutting with chain or bandsaw ends are sealed with Anchor seal or Paste Wax. When I'm ready to turn I go for a clean cut on edge end and sealed with thin super glue. Sometimes I don't bother with the super glue until after I have a rebate. I wax is left on edges of natural edge they will not finish over. After doing my shape on the outside. I seal with Deft clear wood finish or sanding sealer. After I remount I tickle the shape are reshape. Live cup center is brought up to reshape, then I back off and check for out of round, once round, I turn the inside with gouges and scrapers. Once again I seal the inside with finish material of choice. To keep clear I may go with the lacquer or sanding sealer followed with tung or urethane oil. The bowl will be from a 1/4-1/8" thickness, depending on my thoughts and how the wood is behaving at the time. If I have cracks or splits I use the dust from fine shavings or sanding. Not above using turquoise or coran to fill. I wet sand or dry sand as needed. I baby sit with the wood and make sure I don't get surprise by cracks. If I do it is dust and super glue time. I like to kill that wood now instead of waiting months for it to dry. The bottom may need sanded again from the drying process to make flat. Warping from natural edge bowls with the sap wood at the top is less than trying to wet turn with heartwood at the top in many cases. It takes about 2 weeks for the bowl to dry because you slow the drying process with your finishing. This is what works for me. I just finished 5 locust bowls and showing the results of one here. They are all different but still natural edge.


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Re: DNA woes...

#6

Re: DNA woes...

oscar

>I've been using the DNA with pretty good success. I'm going to agree with MikeinCapeMay, if there are cracks in the wood before you start your doomed. That said, I've seen checks develope in the wood and then disappear as the wood dries further. I'm from a colder northern state that doesn't have much humidity in the winter and have thought that the bowls (roughed out) were maybe drying to fast so I have just tried Anchor seal with no wrapping on the outside. I've had a fair amount of movement in the wood but no cracks or checks in the bowl blanks. The next bowls being roughed out will be double wrapped to see what happens. I'll even probably experiment with Anchor Seal and double wrapping. What I really need to get is an accurate scale so I can keep track of the weight. DNA works much better than anything I've tried before. (dishwashing soap and the microwave)On good solid wood it works pretty darn good, on marginal wood sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Good luck, Oscar

Re: DNA woes...

#7

Re: DNA woes...

DWFII

>Oscar,

Thanks for the response. How many bowls have you done with the DNA/Anchorseal combo? Did you A-seal just the end grain after rough turning and soaking in DNA? Inside and out? Let me know, maybe I'll try the next one that way

What woods are you turning mostly?

Thanks again.

DW

In the high desert of central Oregon

Re: DNA woes...

#8

1" wall thickness may be your problem.

Al Crandall --NE of Indy--

>Unless your bowl was very large, the extra thickness of the wall probably resisted the quick drying from the alcohol. Dave's protocol said to turn to a thickness which was thinner than normal for air drying rough outs. I'm still trying to find the optimum ratio, but I'm sure it's less than the old 10% figure we use for air drying. I've had mixed results with the thick walls of some confetti lamp holders which had, by necessity of design, some thick walls. It's not touted as a cure for all drying woes.

Re: DNA woes...

#9

Re: 1" wall thickness may be your problem.

DWFII

>Al,

Hmmm...I missed that. Thank you.

So...say the bowl is 8" across and 4" high, what would an optimal wall thickness range be?

DW

In the high desert of central Oregon

Re: DNA woes...

#10

Re: 1" wall thickness may be your problem.

oscar

>I've done about a dozen bowls and hollow forms with the DNA. About 4 have been done with Anchor Seal and they have been drying long enough so I would expect to have problems if there were going to be any (about 2 weeks). I just coat the out side of the bowl(end grain) and over the rim into the inside about 1/2 of an inch. Wall thickness has been 1/2" to about 3/4" depending on size and shape, been trying to leave them a little on the thick side because as I've said, I've been getting a fair amount of wood movement. The wood I've used so far has been ash, elm, box elder, and some really nasty oak. Oscar

Re: DNA woes...

#11

I have the DNA woes too. *LINK*

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Hi DW,

Sorry to hear about your problems with DNA bowl drying process. Soaking the bowl for 72 hours is not a problem. From what you said it appears that you did everything right. Fresher is better when turning and drying a bowl no matter what process you use. My shop is dehumidified and heated year round so I don't think your heated shop is a problem.

How deep were the cracks that you saw? It is not unusual to see surface cracks that will turn away when the bowl is finish turned.

Since unwrapping the bowl have the cracks propagated through the bowl walls?

How large is the bowl? Thicker walls dry slower and have more stress which leads to more cracks.

Check out the Process Article posted here on Woodcentral. I don't use Anchorseal on the outside of the bowls. I did testing with it and it does not appear to improve the process. Where I live grocery bags are cheap and readily available.

If you ever make to my neck of the woods I will load you up with more wood than you want. LOML would give it all to you. Sandy doesn't think it is attractive landscaping. I can send you a couple dry roughed out bowls for the cost of shipping if it will ease your pain.

Please email or call me if you want.

Dave Smith

Processing fresh elm in Longview, WA.


Alcohol soaking method for drying bowls

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