conversation with an artist

Re: conversation with an artist

John Lucas

>Mike

I'm becoming more and more concerned with dyes, pens etc fading. I saw a demo last year at the Southern States Symposium. He used all the common dyes that we woodworkers used. Placed this specimen in the dash of his truck and in 3 months almost all were faded to nearly nothing. Only the metalic Oxide dyes held up if my memory is accurate. I believe that's the same thing that Binh Pho discovered also.

Re: conversation with an artist

AndiWolfe

>That's interesting, Mike. I sure would expect that result, too, if I used Prismacolor markers on paper and put the drawing into direct sunlight. These markers are labeled, "fade resistant," but not archival. This means they are not for display in direct sunlight or in extended fluorescent lighting situations.

2-D artists would normally display something (watercolors, pastels, ink drawings, etc.) under glass, which offers some UV protection. These are also usually displayed out of direct lighting situations to preserve the coloring over time.

I wouldn't get too stirred up by your artist friend. We use a variety of finishes over the coloring to add more UV protection. If turnings are displayed away from direct sunlight and not in a fluorescent light setting, the use of Prismacolor markers should be fine.

I'll be doing some tests of these along with some other pigments in a UV light box. Will be interesting to see what happens with high-intensity light.

Re: conversation with an artist

Mike Schwing from Md.

>I was hoping you'd see this Andi. Having little experience (but gaining rapidly) with the subject, I found it very interesting. Also, acknowledging that our products don't generally sit in direct sunlight because the wood darkens, we've already got a bit of a head start on the fading.

However, considering that woods tend to darken with age, and colored markers tend to lighten - I sure hope your beautiful work isn't lost to the ages prematurely.

Re: conversation with an artist

AndiWolfe

>I'm not worried about it yet. I've kept samples along the way to monitor what happens. I've also had a few conversations with Steve Sinner about some of the problems he's had with some of his early pieces where fading and color changes were definite issues. I tend to make the analogy of well-crafted Oriental rugs - even with some fading and changing of colors, these textiles have only improved with age.

Re: conversation with an artist

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>All very interesting as I'm just starting to use prismacolors a bit. If you visit the Heard museum in Phoenix, possibly the largest collection of SW Indian artifacts, you'll find that the colors on all of the 1000 year old pots has faded a lot. But just think of where those pots have been and how they were used at one time. They didn't have prismacolors, but their colors come from natural sources, which probably aren't colorfast either.

Wally

Re: conversation with an artist

Pete Kekel - Kentucky

>I wonder what would be an acceptable amount of fade? Obviously, the slower and less, the better. I formulate printing inks and we occasionally have the call for "fade-resistant" inks and we send out samples to have them tested in a private lab with a fadeometer. I wonder if this would work for colors on wood?

Re: conversation with an artist

AndiWolfe

>What's a fadeometer??? I think it would be worth testing a lot of different dyes and pigments on wood. Besides the color changes of the actual dye or pigment, you have to look at the interaction between the different woods, the finishes used, and the coloring. I've been intending to do this in a UV light box in my lab, but if there's another system or lab out there that would be better, I'd be happy to do it differently.

For example, I've noticed that some of the yellow colors I apply change to an orangey hue as the wood oxides. However, if a bright light is shone on the yellow coloring, it becomes as vibrant and clear as when first applied.

Re: conversation with an artist

Greg in Oshkosh

>a fadeometer is a device where the sample is rotated around an electrical arc which gives off lots of uv and other wavelengths. Haven't seen one in awhile now.

Re: conversation with an artist

John Lucas

>Andi

Send me your sample and I'll put it next to my welder. That should give it some UV.

Re: sunlight and oxygen

Russ Fairfield

>I thought everybody knew that sunlight and oxygen were natural bleaching agents. Given enough time all dyes and pigments will degrade to white. Some are are just faster than others.

"Colorfast" is a measurement of how long the color will last, it is not an absolute.

Dyes made from metallic salts are the most colorfast. Dyes that use alcohol and other volatile solvents are the least colorfast. Water soluble dyes are somewhere in the middle.

We use the dyes with alcohol and other volatile solvents because they evaporate quickly. That prevents the dye from wicking through the wood, and there is no problem with raising the wood grain. The penalty is that they don't last very long.

Re: sunlight and oxygen

Lan Brady

>Fade0meters are used heavily in the testile industry. The light source is a xenon arc bulb. They are intended to accelerate testing for light exposure. One hour in the chamber is equivelent to 20 hours of normal exposure.

Lan

Re: conversation with an artist

Steve Mushinski

>I will give it a go Andi. I have eprom easers that I use to reprogram chip. They have special bulbs which come with all the warnings about not looking at them as they are pretty intense. Next week I will start a test with the markers with plain and finished surfaces. I know that if I leave the eprom chips in for months the lettering on them fades to the point sometimes I cannot read the writing. I will get back to you and Mike about this. Steve