Filling deep checks

Re: Forgot to mention...

Gary Evans, Tallassee, TN

>Material costs will also be an important consideration as I have several 2' sections that I would like to fill.

Also, I think that a bright red would make a nice contrast to the pale pink of this wood. Would powdered dye be a good choice?

Thanks,

Gary

Re: Forgot to mention...

John Lucas

>Gary

Buy your epoxy in bulk from West Systems. It will save you a ton. I mix powdered chalk but that's usually for small quantities. I think powdered analine dye would work well but haven't tried it. I have tried India Ink. It works real well in black.

Re: Filling deep checks

Mike Schwing from Md.

>Gary, while I have no way to prove this, I think you are going to be disappointed in your efforts. Checks go way deeper than you can see, and even if you can arrest them with epoxy, I'm afraid once you cut the material up and allow it to move, those hair line or smaller cracks you haven't seen are going to do their thing. I think you might do better to cut the wood up in to usable sections now, giving you the ability to see more of the cracks, and allowing the wood to move a little in blank form, cracking if it will, and preventing you from spending a lot of time with a form that is going to crack anyway.

I've been a big fan of the saying "it is only wood" lately, and I think its saved me some heartache.

Your mileage, and undoubtedly others' advice, may vary.

Re: Forgot to mention...

Gary Evans, Tallassee, TN

>Hi John,

Good to hear from you.

I have a friend who has used a bunch of the West System epoxy, as well as an engineer buddy who is well schooled in manipulating plastics, but I haven't had an opportunity to have this discussion with either of them yet. I'll let the forum know what I find out as I research this idea.

Thanks,

Gary

Re: Filling deep checks

Gary Evans, Tallassee, TN

>Hi Mike,

I am of the same mind as you. I may have a good deal of trouble after the piece is roughed out. I am trying to figure out a method that will be as successful as possible.

I probably wouldn't go to this much trouble except that this is the largest dogwood I've seen and I am watching 45 acres right in the heart of dogwood country. I'd really like to be able to turn something of sufficient scale to show the size of the original tree.

I'll be talking to my epoxy guy tonight and my plastics guy tomorrow. I'll report back as I learn more.

Thanks,

Gary

Re: Filling deep checks

John Lucas

>Gary

woodcraft sells a bar top finish. It's called Mirror coat. It becomes extemely viscous as it starts to cure and will run into the smallest crevice. It will actually soak through the end grain on some woods. It will fill the small cracks I think. I've used to fill the small cracks and holes in Tagua Nuts. The problem is it runs so well it's hard to contain. If the cracks are toward the inside and dont'go outside you can use this stuff. I've had some success with putting plastic or tape around pieces to hold it in but this stuff really want's to run.

Re: Filling deep checks

Fog Tanner

>There are a number of things you can do with epoxy to fill cracks and voids. I use finely ground coffee as a filler mixed in with the epoxy quite a bit. There are a number of ways to dye it, from ink, acrlic paint, to commerical pigments. It usually only takes a very small amount to color the epoxy, sometimes only a few drops. I like using the coffee, as it goes will eith mesquite and cedar. Epoxy also provides a sronger "joint" when filling it it contains a "binder" or filler. The resultant joint is stronger than if just straight epoxy is used.

Using a vacum will eliminate the bubbles that form in the mix. And it can help the epoxy flow into those areas where there were trapped air bubbles. For filling, there are a number of finishing resins available. West Systems has one, but there are others which are fairly thin. You can find a number of these at an R/C model shop. I use several differnt brands. One of the ones I use, I even thin more - 10% with 90% isoprophal alcohol. If I am using a long setting epoxy and it isn't flowing I will sometimes heat the mixture with a heat gun - slightly to get it to flow. Too much and it will start to set too quickly. You can also warm the area where the epoxy is going to help the flow.

If you do decide to use epoxy, you will need to let it core for at least a week before turning it. Epoxys have a "set time" which is the time it takes them to become firm. They can normally be handled a few hours after their set time, depending on the weather. But it takes them a week to cure fully. This is the normal epoxies you will find in your local boat supplies or home centers. There are a number of other epoxies availble from pattern makers supply shops that are a different story. And 5 minute epoxy is another story - which I wouldn't consider for this application.

epoxy

Andy in Raleigh

>At the risk of starting a shooting war between advocates of various manufacturers...

If you search for comparisons, you will find one done by a guy who makes sea kayaks that is very in depth and seem quite objective. What he found out is what I also believe from my experience - there is almost no difference between brands other than finishing characteristics - whether it blushes when drying, levels well, is crystal clear, etc. When you are using it to lay fiberglass that matters. Even the variance in finishing characteristics is not that dramatic. The difference in price is. If you look at Raka.com or look for epoxy on eBay, you will get an idea of what the premium is for whatever upswing in quality there might or might not be. I use Raka. I built a couple of boats with it. It comes in various grades and different ratios and "speeds" (how quickly the hardener works). You don't want anything too fast.

I agree Andy

MikeinCapeMay

>I'm in the process of restoring a 1963 Boston Whaler Nauset and Raka is what I've been using. A buddy who has beesn rebuilding, restoringand repairing boats for years swears by them and turned me on to the product. As you say the price is unbeatable and the quality if there. Reading these various threads regarding epoxy as a filler has me thinking about trying it with some cabosil and a coloring agent such as dye or coffee.

Re: I agree Andy

Andy in Raleigh

>Yeah, this is one area that isn't so subjective. I understand why a Sorby or other tool can be considered more valuable than a knock off that seems pretty much the same, but could have issues with tempering, QC, poor wood in handles, etc. But epoxy can be analyzed in the lab and most of the major "manufacturers" really resell the same chemicals (often from the same factories) with just some tweaky differences in additives in the hardeners.