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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

UNSAFE at any speed

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UNSAFE at any speed

#1

UNSAFE at any speed

TD

>That was Naders description of the Corvair but it could also be a decsription of a lathe in someone's hands who has not had a basic class. No matter how much safety gear you wear a lathe can still be a very dangerous tool if you do things that should not be done. In past years most of us began turning on a very small lathe with a 1/3 hp motor and a belt that would slip if a catch occurred; todays lathes are often direct drive and 1.5 or 2 hp and 20" swing instead of 10" or 12". These are great lathes and a big improvement over what I learned on but they have the potential to be much more dangerous; they also have the potential to be much safer because a variable speed lathe is safer than a step pulley lathe. The key is to stay away from the upper limits of these lathes until your skills are sufficient to go there. Learning to stay out of the "line of fire" is far more important than wearing a faceshield. Don't get me wrong, the faceshield is very immportant, expecially with new turners, but not standing where you will be hit if something blows up is much more important. Sometimes we think because we have on some safety gear that we are protected from a flying piece of wood but this is not necessarily so. Picture a 30 lb piece of wood hitting a thin plastic bubble; not pretty..... As we talked about safety issues a few days ago no one mentioned the importance of that first beginners class. In my opinion we missed the greatest safety item of all.

TD

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#2

Re: Funny You Should Mention It

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Gave a friend and a boy scout their first spindle turning lesson. First words of the lesson? "This thing will kill you, completely rearrange your face, or sever body parts if you disrespect its potential."

Then we got down to how to make the machine work for you rather than against you.

MM

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#3

Well said!

Bob Hackett

>I think turning must have more than it`s fair share of guardian angels hovering around,I know they collected alot of overtime watching me starting out.

That first class should also include an intro to the local clubs and sources of info.WC goes up on the board in all my classes as does the AAW,the Turning Center,Maine Woodturners and a list of books as references.

I have found is that I don`t regularly wear a faceshield during class.I told myself it was because the students couldn`t hear me while I was wearing it.

Last class,I was trying to save a bowl that was cut far too thin at the mid point by a student and it flexed and blew out as I had feared it would.

A piece caught me on the chin.Just a small spot,no worse than a shaving cut but enough so blood appeared.I made sure everyone saw it and explained that I should have been wearing the faceshield and that it could have been worse if I was standing "In the danger zone"and showed them the pieces that had missed.

Everyone got the point,including me.I now wear a faceshield and stop to flip it up if I have something to say.

I still don`t wear one at home(safety glasses and side shields are a habit though)but the students all see me wear one in class and I can`t help but think they feel it`s more important because I do.The old "Do as I say,not as I do" thing finally kicked in for me.

Mainely,Bob

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#4

Rapid growth dangers

David Galloway

>I have been amazed at the rapid growth in the three chapters I have personal experience with. Terry has done a great job with the Apple Ridge chapter in N. Ga. as people turn out in surprisingly big numbers. Downside is the old adage of "fools rush in". I was one of those and was lucky to survive several encounters of the unidentified flying vessels. I will never forget the picture in the AAW journal of one of the most talents turners I have met, Dave Lancaster, who had his face rearranged by an exploding bowl. Same thing happened to Al Stirt, another talented long-time turner. This is a dangerous past time, but then Danger is my middle name.

Terry really gets at it in the initial post. We should be encouraging lessons to all the folks who come our way. I wonder if a safety seminar offered before or after a chapter meeting, say every quarter, might be a smart idea. Thanks for raising the issue Terry.

Blessings,

David Galloway

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#5

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>A friend of mine who has been turning for over 20 years had a turning accident that shouldn't have happened. He hadn't done any turning for some time, and one day mounted a fairly large piece of burl on his lathe and flipped the switch. He woke up on the floor in a pool of his own blood. After visits to the ER and his dentist, he ended up with over 100 stitches in and around his mouth, and a broken nose. He considers himself lucky that it wasn't worse. His mistake? he didn't check the speed setting on his lathe. He later remembered that his last turning had been on some small spindles, and the speed setting was around 3000 RPM. Also, he wasn't wearing a face mask, although he was wearing safety glasses.

In my classes, one of the first safety rules that I try to impress students with, is to always check the speed setting before turning on the lathe.

Wally

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#6

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

TD

>That is exactly my point Wally; any beginner's class should stress starting the lathe at minimum speed, direction of cut, start with small pieces and work your way up, don't do thin stuff until your skills allow it, keep rpm down, etc. When I was learning to turn most turners had a background in woodworking and already knew a lot about tools; today, many turners have no tool skills and they jump in without knowing enough about cutting edges, sharpening, etc. OSHA should make the beginners class mandatory. ( Just kidding folks)

TD

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#7

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

George Van in WI

>Thanks for the reminder Terry. I do not want to get lazy and stand in front of that spinning blank.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#8

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

John Lucas

>Terry

I had lunch with one of our Engineering professors and he said he's having a lot of trouble with students in the labs because many have never used a grinder, bandsaw, file or tap and die or any other tools for that matter, and don't know the basics. There having to teach them proper use and safety. He said it wasn't like that years ago. Most engineering students had done a lot of mechanical type work before starting the program so they required only minor attention when working in the lab.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#9

Richard Allen

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

Richard Allen

>Our woodturning club has a "Skills Enhancment" workshop twice a month. A high school shop with a dozen lathes is used for members who want to have the help of others as they try turning wood. If someone shows up with a "Sherlock Holmes outfit on" (to disguise the fact that they haven't a clue) it is sugested that they take an entry level course before they come to the "Skill Enhancment" again.

The guys who run the "Skill Enhancment" workshop tell me that the difference between a novice who has taken an entry level class and novice who hasn't is night and day.

I recall when I first started turning that the classes I took made a HUGE difference for me. In the short span of two evenings I went from haveing that Sherlock Holmes outfit on to being a bonofied Dr. Watson(;->)

BTW one of the other requirments for the "Skills Enhancment" workshop is being a member of the AAW (insurance thing).

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#10

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

Raymond Overman in SC

>Good post Terry. I had my seven stitches because of minimal instruction and poor judgement after about six months of turning. I had safety glasses but 20# of spalted pecan doesn't stop there. I now have a slight scar to remind me every morning when I'm shaving.

Since then I've had my overhead lights knocked out but I haven't had my "lights" knocked out because I'm careful to stay out of that line of fire. Basic lathe operation, line of fire, reading wood and hidden dangers, planning an escape path should something go wrong and keeping it clear of obstructions, as well as tool technique, air quality control, and basic materials handling safety should be included in that class. I would say the majority of people who have graduated in the last ten to fifteen years did not take a woodworking or shop class, especially those college bound.

Unfortunately, for the hobbiest turner just getting started, that means a bigger outlay of cash than what they originally intended in a $150 lathe and a set of HF turning tools. Getting to that higher level of investment is hard for some people. It's important for them to seek out those great local clubs and ask for assistance. Like one of the other threads today, I haven't met a turner yet that wasn't generous with his time and opinions given the chance.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#11

Back to the old question

Fred in NC

>The HS shops are being replaced with computer labs. Kids are not encouraged to learn crafts.

If this keeps going, soon even hand tools will have to be labeled. Like "SCREWDRIVER" on the handle. Even then, people will look for the [ENTER] key on the screwdriver handle . . .

Don't get me wrong, I make a living with computers. But, SHEESH !!!

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#12

Re: Back to the old question

Arch

>Fred, Don't worry about people not knowing from screwdrivers. They'll get jobs in Sear's hardware department and later will move up to become supervisors at Scotty's. :)

Turn to Safety, Arch

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#13

The borgs too !!! -

Fred in NC

>

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#14

Downside

Fred in NC

>I totally agree with TD and others.

I just hope we don't end up with laws to restrict our hobby activities.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#15

Re: No Fred

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>They get a Borg BECAUSE they don't know what a screwdriver is!

M

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#16

ROFL !!!!

Fred in NC

>

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#17

Re: Downside

MikeinCapeMay

>I agree with the comments regarding safety. Regarding laws restricting us, I can't imagine we'll see any. I don't have the stats but I'm willing to bet that accidents occuring through use of a lathe are no where near the numbers on other shop tools. Remember the guy that developed the table saw system that causes the blade to stop when soft tissue is encountered? He does demos using a hotdog. Anyway, he could not get a single table saw manufacturer to incorporate his system into their saws. Now perhaps their (the manufacturers) thinking/reasoning was that a failure would result in catastrophic liability, I don't know. I'll be that there are more accidents on the TS than any other shop tool, simply because it's the most common. Throughout the process, no legislative or other governmental body got involved or showed any interest. Anyway, the fellow now manufactures a TS with the blade brake system. I think we're on our own and that's how it should be.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#18

Keith Tompkins

Re: Downside

Keith Tompkins

>Hi Mike, I think the table saw is the most dangerous of all....for several reasons. But, they are all dangerous. Many times, the reason for an accident is just a split second error in judgement. I cringe to think of some of the accidents I've seen during my career. A big jointer will remove your hand...instantly. A 25 HP motor on a rough-mill planer will kick back a board violently enough to kill the hapless soul unfortunate enough to be standing in front of it. Don't ask how I know these things.

I like to take a moment each time I turn just to mentally prepare myself.....like Wally posted, if his friend had only done that.

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

#19

Keith Tompkins

Re: UNSAFE at any speed

Keith Tompkins

>Terry, new turners buying big lathes reminds me of new motorcyclists buying a bike with 100 horsepower. Or a parent buying a sixteen year old a Porsche. They all may be a recipe for disaster.

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