The Bowl Gouge....

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Chris K.

>The gaunlet is thrown down... and I bet 99.9% of use run for the hills.

Just shattered my first bowl about 15 mintues ago, I had to get that profile just right...oops should have checked that thinkness again.

I would have to agree bowl gouges = fun

Chris

- who is running ahead of everyone else :0

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Doug Leite

>Russ,

I agree with you about gouges making it easy and fun. I remember back in the late 70's, when I had a machine shop business, Jack Straka had just returned from England after turning with a Mr. Childs (memory won't retrieve his first name) and he came in wanting to make a "secret" tool. I drilled a piece of tool steel that he furnished, but I don't know if he ever finished it, gotta ask him. Can't teach some old dogs new tricks. I know a guy that's a lot junior to you or Jack and he still turns with a piece of 3/4" pipe with a square HS tool bit ground with a round nose held in it by a setscrew. He says that he "can't make those damn gouges work without catching".

Now that I am a turner, I can't imagine having to work using files and truck leaf springs made into scrapers.

Aloha and thanks for stirring up some memories.

Doug Leite

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

RonZ

>Well, Ed Malthrop and Rude Osolnik did, I hollowed out a large teakwood goblet about 30 years ago in wood shop. I probably could do it. A fellow 'woodturner/teacher' whos main expertise is flatwork came by to order tools for his class. He uses only 1/2" round scrapers. I don't even want to think about it.

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Mike Rubes, Apex, NC

>Hi Wally,

Neat information, thanks. Watching the Del Stubbs video, he briefly talks about, and uses, what I guess passed for his first "bowl gouge", which was a piece of a pipe he had sharpened into a tool! This tape was made around 1985 and he said that tool was several years old, so it puts it in the same time frame.

Like you said, the gouge is just plain fun! Especially with a nice wet piece of wood with the shavings flying over your shoulder. Great stuff :)

Thanks,

Mike

No plans to give up the gouge in Apex, NC!!

just a couple of years ago

Andy in Raleigh

>I was convinced that I could do anything with a 3/4" carbon steel spindle gouge. And I did, for a while. I even did some small bowls. I strong armed it and was convinced that those skinny little HSS bowl gouges were finesse tools for those who couldn't handle "real" turning. If you search the archives you will find a posting from me with a picture of that gouge snapped in half, wondering what I was doing wrong. I kind of shied away from that for a while and have been a spindle turning skew dude.

Anyway, my point is that if you don't mind going through a few tools and occasionally having metal shards whizzing around your head, you can turn anything with a spindle gouge. Yep, bowl gouges are a wonderful idea!

-Andy

Re: just a couple of years ago

Michael Stafford

>In 1963 I turned my first bowl in shop class, a rather formless lump of walnut dished out in the center with straight sides, formed almost entirely with a round scraper.

Fortunately I do not have to do it that way any more but also unfortunately my bowls do not look a whole lot better. LOL

Thank goodness for bowl gouges.

I still have that piece of ewe (SP)

Dustmaker Mike Northfield OH almost

>wood that I was trying to turn at Sophies last summer. It is as dry as can be ( sat in a garage for 35 + years) would heat up and dull the tips if the Bowl gouges pretty fast. I was just trying to make a box out of it and it won for now. (Wally forgot to grab the extra piece now I am not sure where it is but when I find it after moveing in I will send it to you). I don't think a gouge is going to work on it I had to use a scraper and it went faster and easier. So I guess what I am trying to say or ask wouldn't it depend on the type of wood and the dryness if a gouge will work correctly or not?

You mean "Yew"??

Russ Fairfield

>The title of your message gave me the picture of shearing a ewe with a sharp skew while she was spionning rapidly between centers on the lathe.

Yup I figured out the correct

Dustmaker Mike Northfield OH almost

>spelling right after I walked away. I hate when I do that(-;

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Philip Duffy

>Wally, No question about what you state as the principle reason for the popularity of wood turning these days. Would point out that such pominent turners as Myron Curtis never touches a bowl gouge. He is the master of the scraper and, while we tease him a bit, it is impossible to beat his work. I suppose it helps to have 50 years of experience! Phil

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

JamieDonaldson

>Learning from Rude Osolnik and working in his shop in the late '80s was like being in a museum! Rude did most of his work with that awesome weapon (shallow fluted spindle gouge) he made from planer blades, and I still have one of them in my retired tools collection. I don't remember what I used to turn my first bowl in shop class in 1959, but I still have the bowl and it ain't pretty!!! The evolution of the various side ground gouges has certainly made turning bowls even more user friendly, and I can't imagine teaching beginners without it!

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Duane C.Leach

>I agree with your assessment of todays turning. New designs, improved steel, and more user friendly tools have made wood turning a ever increasingly, popular activity.

Some of the other things that have helped increase turnings popularity to. More free time, ( retirement), more people with disposable income. And the peace of mind that comes with creating something with your own hands in a reality short time. The desire to belong to social culbs like AAW didn't hurt either.

Happy turning

Duane

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Wally

Very interesting post. One of my mentors back in the earlier days of my turning career had a host of scrapers in various thicknesses and widths. He is the one who got me sharpening my scrapers to a 30 degree angle. He had a bowl gouge, but used these scrapers almost exclusively for turning and hollowing the many bowls and boxes he made. The finishes he achieved were incredible to behold, and he sold his pieces for a very good price (i.e. expensive).

The funny thing is, there were many newer turners who mocked him, asserting in loud voices that he was not a real turner because he did not use a bowl gouge, but rather scraped his way through a piece of wood. Anyone who actually saw him in action and the long ribbons of wood flowing off the tool would not associate it with the normal picture of scraping. It is amazing to see how many people think that history starts with their appearance on the scene, whether at birth or at some point during their life when they become acquainted with a particular subject.

Unfortunately my friend died of cancer a few years ago. I helped his widow go through all his tools in preparation for selling them. By way of thanks, she gave me all his homemade scrapers, declearing that they should be used by someone who knew him and appreciated his style. I was honored, and they occupy my tool rack to this day.

Bill

Uhh..Russ is the Other Old Guy...

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Sure lots of us old guys used shop-made tools. I hollowed with a heavy duty and modified spindle gouge and an assortment of scrapers. A couple of them I still use today in hollow forms.

Wally

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Del Stubbs is/was a great turner and used a variety of tools. I watched him turn a number of times. He inspired me to to do thin-walled pieces.

Wally

Re: just a couple of years ago

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>In the UK they used a heavy duty shallow fluted gouge that was/is called a "long and strong" tool. That tool preceded the deep fluted bowl gouge.

Wally

Re: I still have that piece of ewe (SP)

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Mike, I think that I remember your struggles with that wood. There are times when a dry, tough piece of wood requires a little experimenting. I've found that sometimes a 1/4-inch gouge will work when a larger one doesn't do well.

Wally

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>His attitude is probably "if it works, don't fix it". Scrapers used by an expert will do the job, but the deep fluted bowl gouge will do it easier and faster.

Wally

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Jamie, I have a small piece that Rude turned in my shop, on my lathe, using that tool. He was a master with it. I tried it a couple of times, but didn't quite master it. Rude was a great guy. He stayed with my wife and I a couple of times when he was visiting Seattle.

Wally

When I unpack and find the other

Dustmaker Mike Northfield OH almost

>piece I will send it to ya to play with. It was not the best wood to learn how to turn boxes with or to learn how to hollow.

Re: The Bowl Gouge....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>Bill, I've known a couple of turners who were experts with shop-made tools. Rude Osolnik was one of them. I agree that it's a real pleasure to watch people like that in action. I still use a couple of tools that I made in the "old days". They worked well then, and they still do today.

I'm glad that your friends tools found a good home instead of being picked at a garage sale.

Wally

Re: just a couple of years ago

Russ Fairfield

>Wally gives me credit for more mileage than I have.

I always find it interesting that some of the old tools that we made now have different names, and some are even patented.

I learned how to make a round tool for spindle turning from an old patternmaker in the early '50s. It has come back again as the "Skewchigouge". The Skewchi is 1/2" diameter, but we made them in 1" diameter.

The ring tool was used for a lot of turning, including hollowing the inside curve. Roughing cuts were with power feed, but the finish cuts were made with a hand=held tool, just as we would use a "Termite" today. The only difference was that the ring diameters were larger. I still have a couple of them that are almost 2" diameter rings. One of them has been cut away to make a hook, and it is fitted with a handle for hand use.

Another tool that I remember from the '50s was the one we made by drilling a hole in the end of a steel rod and holding a piece of square HSS in it with a set-screw. That was soon followed by the discovery that war surplus rifle barrels were a cheap source for the steel.

Those tools were a lot better for doing the inside of a bowl than a scraper, and not all that different from what we are still using for hollowing tools.

My first hollow forms were the patterns for a pair 64" tall bronze castings of a Grecian Urn in '56. Had to do them 3 times to get the shrinkage right so the line of the shape would be what they wanted after the metal had cooled.

Patterns for cast bells were a rather common job.

And Wally probably remembers when we turned bowls between centers, then broke off the pong center stub and sanded the bottom. The rifle barrel tools worked very well for this type of turning.

long and strong

Andy in Raleigh

>is pretty much what I use now. I got a set of PSI chisels that included a 23" long 1/2" gouge identified in their literature as a spindle gouge but referred to in the box as "long and strong" and a 17.5" long 3/8" gouge that they identify as a bowl gouge. Both had shallow flutes and wings that had more of a corner than I wanted on a bowl gouge, so I ground the long 1/2" corners down to roughly match one from the grinds library. I say roughly because I retained the factory grind on the front and just brought it around and tapered it off on each side. It seems to work pretty well, but I haven't been turning "real" bowls. I have used it on end grain and used it to create waste blocks (which I hollow a tenon recess in, so there are "bowl like cuts" involved).