Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Russ Fairfield

>An opinion that is probably not shared by anyone at all.

Why I didn�t buy a Powermatic

When our skills have improved to where we are considering an up-grade to a bigger and hopefully better lathe, we will ask the question, �What is there about the Oneway that makes it worth the extra $1000.�

To answer this question, I will go through the reasons why I bought my Oneway 2036 in 1996 from Highland Hardware in Atlanta. The then new Powermatic 3520 was available for a side by side comparison with the Oneway (also new at that time), the new General with VS drive, and the Conover, and I had the opportunity to turn some wood on all of them that day. I didn't even consider the Woodfast or Vicmark because I would have had to go to Utah to see one of them, and I was living in Florida at the time. The VB36 was so new on the market that Craft Supplies had yet to have the first one in stock (talk about sight unseen).

The Powermatic 3520 came out at the bottom in several categories that were important to me. It did not have reversing, a spindle lock, or indexing. The indexing was available for an additional $400, and the other features not at all. These features were standard on the Oneway, General, and Conover. Powermatic has since added the reversing and a spindle lock, but the indexing will still be an optional extra cost unless it has been added in the past year.

I didn't consider the Conover at the time because it wasn't versatile enough for the different types of work that I was doing or planned to do. I wanted the ability to do outboard turning for hollowing, and it is only a 16" lathe. The headstock could be moved to the other end of the lathe, but it was a difficult task that required moving the headstock and motor separately. I found the tool rest lock being under the ways was awkward to use. If I had been buying a lathe that was to be dedicated to spindle turning, the Conover would have been the choice, and it still is. The Conover is an excellent lathe and it has the smoothest drive of any lathe at any price. It was discontinued in March 2003.

The General was the same 12" lathe that everyone had been putting riser blocks under to make it a 20" machine. The only difference was that the riser blocks were now a permanent part of the lathe castings, and then added the electronic VS drive. The stand under it still rattled, and the outboard turning ability was a clunky add-on (my opinion) with a different spindle thread that made it difficult to use. I wanted the ability to hollow turn without having to sit on the lathe bed like I had been doing with the old General lathe (12" with riser blocks) that I had at home. I wanted a �new� lathe, not just a new paint job!!

That made the choice as one between the Oneway and the Powermatic. There were several design problems with the Powermatic that were immediately obvious from observation and some time turning on it. The fit and finish were very rough with poor quality machined surfaces compared to the others. The headstock casting was a large square box shape with a short spindle extension that made it nearly impossible to turn on the backside of anything that was chucked in the lathe. Powermatic has since eased the corners behind the spindle but it is still difficult to turn on the back side of a bowl without adding a spindle extension. The headstock and tail stock centers did not meet and, from what I could tell, the spindle and tailstock bores were on intersecting centerlines that were at an angle to each other, rather than being on parallel lines. The sliding headstock was a nice feature but the locking mechanism was too weak to hold it in place anywhere along the lathe bed without using a hammer. The tool rest lock had a nasty habit of not breaking loose when I wanted to move it, and not staying locked when I wanted it to stay put. The thickness of the ways was variable along the length of the lathe which made for poor locking of the tool rest and a variable location of the handle as it was locked on the thick or thin places. The tailstock lock wasn't strong enough to hold it in place against the force of a live-center without using a hammer on the locking lever.

And then there were some other differences that were not so obvious-- Morse tapers that were as rough as corn cobs inside as opposed to smoothly ground surfaces; a spindle shaft that was turned only at the ends, and not its full length, so it was unbalanced and vibrated at high speed with nothing attached to it; threads on the spindle that were a tight fit for those on their own and others faceplates and chucks; a hand-wheel that was too small and too close to the headstock and motor to be of any use; no means of locking the chuck to the spindle (not needed if you couldn't run it backwards); and the spindle threads had an obvious run-out and wobble because they were not in line with the spindle shaft. I could have lived with all of the others, but this last one was totally unacceptable.

Was all of this worth the $600 difference in price at the time? I thought that the indexing, reversing, and spindle lock alone were worth the extra cost. That was a value judgment, but one that I was willing to make because I thought that the Powermatic had problems that I should not be finding, and features that should not be missing on a $3600 (the price at that time) lathe, and a spindle thread problem that shouldn't be found on any machine at any price.

Powermatic has solved most of these through better Quality Control, and they have added the reversing and spindle lock as standard features. But, it has taken 7 years, a new generation of buyers, and a large reduction in price before Powermatic has gained acceptance in the lathe market (my opinion). Its current price of something around $2500 is a better reflection of its quality.

The first of the new 3520a models (now made in China since the acquisition of Powermatic by Jet) had problems with breaking castings. Apparently they have fixed those problems, and I don�t hear of those problems with the lathes now being sold.

From what I can tell by looking at the lathes, the new and larger 4224 does not share all of the quality problems of the earlier 3520 and 3520a models. I have not used one of them, only looked at it, so I cannot say anything about the head and tailstock alignments, or how well the locks work. The fit and finish was still not very good on the ones that I have seen, and I don't know whether that says anything about the rest of the lathe or not. I would never consider one of them because the headstock casting is too large to allow for turning from the backside of the chuck. I would recommend a cautious approach, and definitely take a �test drive� before considering it for a purchase.

Since a bad reputation lives forever, the problems with the old 3520 and the early 3520a models tells me that there is still a risk associated with purchasing a Powermatic lathe. Have the problems been corrected? Apparently they have, but what happened to all of the bad machines?? Were they pulled from the market?? None of those risks are there with the Oneway or Vicmark lathes. My personal opinion is that the Oneway is a risk-free purchase that is still worth the additional price. That price difference is now almost $2,000, but that is a value judgment that not everyone would want to make.

For very little more money, I would consider the Vicmarc or the General as the better alternatives. They both have a better record of quality and service than any modern lathe with the Powermatic label on it. The availability and prices on VicMarc have been rising, but the General is still available for about $2900.

Great write up!

Jennifer@Indy.USA

>

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Round & Round

>An excellent read. Thank you very much. So, are you thinking then that a Vicmarc 300 would be a better option than the Oneway 2436 or were you referring to it being a better option than the 4224 Powermatic (which I now fully think the powermatic is out of the running in favor of a Vicmarc).

I hadn't done any research on vicmarc prior to coming to this site, and now see that it's quite a favorable lathe as well. The longbed version of the Vicmarc 300 at 50" between centers is a nice feature as well.

I've rec'd a quote from Woodturners catalog on the Oneway @ $5525 for the 3hp Oneway2436.

Craft Supplies still shows the 3hp @ $4555 but I think they have not updated their site with the recent price increase.

CraftSupplies also shows the Vicmarc 3hp Longbed 300 @ $4095

I suppose I probably can't go wrong either way between the 2 lathes. My main ideal is to buy 1 very nice quality lathe without wishing I had got something "better" down the road. Sure, saving the $1400 would be nice. Could put that into some really nice turning accessories/tools, but then, would I always be wondering "Would the Oneway have been a better way to go?"

Another concern I have, is with the Vicmarc being built in Australia, what kind of lead time would I run into if I needed a part replaced, or if there was a problem with the lathe. Just another item that leans me towards the Oneway.

Hopefully I'll be able to find someone somewhat near to my location so I can actually see the lathe firsthand. I'm not sure where the nearest Oneway dealer is in my region. I can't seem to locate any US dealer info on the Oneway website.

This is going to be tough!

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Keith Tompkins

>wow Russ, that was awesome! Not to knock any machine, I have had similar experiences. The General was the most affordable big lathe with the features you mention, it has performed flawlessly for me....I would buy it again without hesitation.

I have designed an outboard set-up for it....a big improvement over the stock set-up. I also turn on Powermatics regularly, and teach on Oneways....

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

DaveZ

>Hmmmm... I got my PM 4224 in about Feb '03 and I couldn't be any happier. Mine didn't come with any of the problems you have listed above although I will concede that the headstock is square and there is a limit to what you can get to turning from the back. A spindle extension will get you more room, but I have not found the need to order one. The headstock has no problems if I leave my coffee cup on it even while roughing out. Centers align perfectly, it has a stout tailstock with a wonderful quill, the banjo is stout as well and will lock easily anywhere I want. All the machined surfaces were mirror like, no rough edges in the tapers. It has indexing and a spindle lock. I can bring it up to speed, with nothing on and you can hardly tell it's running. Even with wood on it is smooth and practically silent.

So if I had to do it again today, I would certainly get it another. Not knocking the Oneway at all(of course I want one) but I would rather get a 4224 AND a 3520 instead of spending the money on one Oneway 2436.

Best lathe?

TD

>No one can tell you the best lathe for you. You need to try each one out and determine the features that are most important to you. In addition to the features you must consider factory support, parts availability, survivability of the company, and price. There are some good lathes out there that are very shaky in terms of surviving and these I would say check out closely. If the company fails can you get a motor from another source or are you caught short? Likewise, if you break down can you get a part within a reasonable length of time? To me customer service is everything; I will pay more to get a machine that I know will be serviced if need be. Oneway may be a little pricey but I would pay the difference because of their good service reputation. Price is only the beginning.

TD

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Sean Troy

>I have the 4224 and when I started looking, I could have bought any of them. I choose the 4224 because of the quality, price and SERVICE,I have no regrets. Hopfully you'll never need to use a lathe manufacturer's service department but if you did, Powermatic beats them all hands down. Look at the way's on the Powermatic 4224, it's almost double the thickness of the One-Way, Vic-marc and General. this is one solid lathe that can take a beating. Just my observations from trying them all and talking to owners of each. Best of luck, Sean

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

William-Pa.

>Hey there,

That was a toughy decision for me. I looked at PM 4224, the Stubbys and the Oneway 2436. I had an opportunity to test drive a Oneway back in December and that was it for me. The Stubby has a great following and I seriously gave it consideration. I just ordered my 2436 last Friday :) I'm like a love struck school boy thinking about it.

As I posted in another thread, it comes down to personal preference. You like the Beemer, the Jag or the Lexus??

My two cents!

William

Re: It's tough to argue against Russ. However,....

Al Crandall

>Russ, I read with interest your review of the Powermatic 3520 lathe. I respect your vast knowledge base and most of your opinions, but this time I think you have pronounced a lathe guilty by association. You have given us an insightful view of the problems which you personally found with the 3520 lathe, and having never turned on one of these I have to think that everything you said about it is probably true.

My difference of opinion stems from the fact that the 3520 is no longer in production. Your post admits that the 3520a, which is the current model, has addressed most of your concerns with the older model. But I don't have a dog in the fight concerning the issues with the 3520a lathe. I own the PM4224 and this is the lathe which Round and Round asked us to compare to the Oneway 24" lathe.

You admit to having never turned on a PM4224 and still you are willing to pan this lathe by stating "Since a bad reputation lives forever," and "there is still a risk associated with purchasing a Powermatic lathe." A lot of people put a lot of trust in anything which you say regarding the turning world, and I feel that it is patently unfair for you to denegrate the reputation of the 4224 based on your experiences with an entirely different lathe. Guilt by association shouldn't apply here. Indeed, I can't find any of your concerns which, in my experience, apply to the PM4224 lathe.

It was two years ago when I made the choice between the One Way 24" lathe and the Powermatic 24" lathe. I never got a price for shipping the One Way, but the PM with shipping and taxes was $2100 less than the One Way before shipping charges were added. That was a value judgement which I found easy to make.

Since both of our posts here are dealing with personal opinions, I'll state that while it would be a tough task to find anyone who is willing to say that they wish they hadn't bought the 24" One Way, it would be an equally tough task to find anyone who dislikes their PM4224 and is planning to "upgrade" soon.

Respectfully, Al Crandall

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Ted Calver

>Add another satisfied 4224 owner to the list. I made the choice after watching demos on our club's Oneway. No doubt the Oneway is a beautiful machine, but the PM gets the job done just as well and I had money to spend on tools and accessories. No regrets here.

Ted

Re: It's tough to argue against Russ. However,....

Russ Fairfield

>Buying a new lathe today would be a more difficult choice, and there is every possibility that I would make a different one than I did 10 years ago. There are more choices. Everyone's lathes have improved. And, my woodturning has gone in directions that I couldn't imagine 10-years ago.

Re: PM 3520

Doug

>With all due respect to Russ - and I have lots of respect for him - his comments on the PM3520 are off the mark since that lathe is no longer made. I have a 3520A and with the exception of indexing not a single one of Russ's comments apply to my lathe. There is no argument that the OneWay is a fine lathe but in my opinion the PM3520A is a much better buy - bigger bang for the buck. It's kinda like buying a car. I bought a camry for half the price of a lexus. And while the lexus is a fine automobile the camry turned out to be the best car I have ever owned.

For the money the PM3520A is one sweet lathe.

Just my opinion --- Doug

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Wayne Allen - Carson City. Nevada

>Keith -- Would you mind giving more info on what this outboard set-up improvement is, how you did it and maybe a picture? I too thought General's solution wasn't really the best answer, let alone the expence of it. Thanks-- Wayne

Re: Oneway 2436 or PM 4224

Fog Tanner

>I have a Vic 300VL long bed. It is the real Vic from Australia and not the C.S. version. There is a world of difference between then two. I did have some minor damage due to shipping and the parts were replaced in less than two weeks. My only complaint with Vic was the crating.

I looked at the Powermatics, Oneway and Vicmarc. I had ruled out the Poermatics when production moved to China, leaving Oneway and Vicmarc. I was set on gettin at 1640 Oneway, when I saw and used a Vic 300. No comparison between the two. I contacted several of the professional turners that I have met to get their opinions. All pinted towards the Vic. One of them has a Oneway, but doesn't use it. He got a Vic for his production work and uses the Oneway as a dust collector. Most of them have two (2) or more, all Vicmarcs and most are the 300.

Should you lean towards the Vic, I would not get the Craft Supply version. It is simply not a Vicmarc. The only thing Vic is the bed, headstock, and tailstock. Their base is inferior as is their drive. The banjo is made by Vic, but at C.S. request is only bored for a 1" tool post and not the 30mm that Vic has. All the larger lathes have larger tool posts to eliminiate the flex during heavy cuts. I have yet to stall or even slow down the 2hp drive on mine, but have seen the motors on the C.S. version get pulled down during heavy cuts.

Oneway is a decent lathe, certainly not the best as the advertising says, and a bit over priced for what you get. But it is light years ahead of the Powermatic, but certainly no better than the Vic or Stubby. There is no lathe that is the best, you can find faults with all of them. You just have to find what works for you. If I could not have gotten the Vic I would have had to look at a Stubby, the 2436, or building my own.