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Knowledge You Can Build On — Est. 1998

WAR CLUB

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WAR CLUB

#1

WAR CLUB

Gary Smyth

>I have been tasked to produce a Native American Iroquois type wooden war club. Many of you will call these to mind. It is a 24" long tapering handle haft with a 4.5" diameter solid wood ball shape at a right angle to the handle at the business end. The ball is very much like a ball and claw foot on furniture--one piece with the haft and at a severe angle. It MUST be a single piece of Northeast dense hardwood likely walnut, ash, or hickory. A buddy told me to turn it to rough--as if it were the simplist thing in the world to do. At the time I nodded my head in agreement but I can't think of any way to even attempt such a thing. If this makes sense to any of you and you can picture in your mind, or know the shape I need, I'm open for assistance. Other than carving how would I form the ball section?

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#2

Like this ? *LINK*

Fred in NC

>Found this pic that fits your description. Hope it helps bring out ideas.


Iroquois War Club

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#3

Yes

Gary Smyth

>

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#4

OK, turners....

Fred in NC

>Time to get the skulls a-thinking!

Looks like a scoop or spoon in a very large size. Unless there is a big lathe handy, might have to be turned outboard.

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#5

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Ernie Miller Topeka

>Band saw it to rough shape then carve it. from the one in the picture I don't think I would make it rough.

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#6

Re: Like this ?

Ernie Miller Topeka

>Is that bone sewn in the tip on the other side of the ball? possably flint? That is definatly not a turned object.

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#7

one more thing

Ernie Miller Topeka

>It looks like it was made out of crotch wood so that it does not lose any strength from the natureal weakness of the grain.

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#8

Re: Like this ?

Garrett in Victoria

>The piece in the museum is so refined that were it ever offered to me for sale, I'd be inclined to question its authenticity. Aside from overall delicacy and finish, the ball is an absolutely perfect sphere. No matter how skilled the craftsperson, I'm hard-pressed to believe this was a killing instrument made 200 years ago in a nomadic warrior society with, at best, only the most primitive of tools. The only other I recall ever seeing - many years ago - had a stout handle and a round rock lashed to it with a hide thong. But, I'm not an anthropologist, and my commentary is probably politically incorrect.

Cheers, Garrett

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#9

Authentic?

Fred in NC

>The finish looks good too! Poly?

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#10

Re: WAR CLUB-Addendum Read HERE

Gary Smyth

>I hope that I'm not reading something that's not there into some responses, but I'm getting the feeling that some of you think that the Iroquois some 250 to 300 years ago were not capable of making that club. That is dead wrong. The first record of such a wooden club was in 1634. "Tomahawks be staves of two foote and a halfe long and a knob at one end as round and and bigge as a football" (Wm. Wood, New England Prospects p62, (1898). If you think they didn't have the capacity to produce the war club you need to revisit history and get to a museum or two. There are at least seven examples of that type of club (most reside at the Smithsonian but are on loan from private collectors). One example was given to Wm. Johnson, British Indian agent (also a Iroquois chief) sometime between 1746 and 1755 with writing incised in a kind of pidgeon French. As early as 1535 Jaques Carter (French explorer) distributed metal hatchets to the Micmac and Saguenay. Tomahawks were a foundation of the fur trade and by 1663 Hurons and Ottawas--who in close combat battles were driven from Iroquois land, took manufactured metal (mostly iron but with a steel edge) axes with them to the lands of the Souix and Cree. Between 1740 and 1808 the Moravians in Ohio even taught native americans how to cast, forge and did some fine work with inlays as art. As the tomahawk moved west metal was preferred as lumber was not as prevalent as it was in the northeast which is also part of the reason that the war club was less popular than the multiuse metal tomahawk. To those who responded negatively wih respect to the wooden club--trust me the club pictured is authentic. It was made by someone of Iroquois decent. Incidentally the Iroquois were not nomadic except to hunt and protect their sizable territory. They were bright, governed well and civilized in their own fashion, largely farmers and turned out more yield per acre then than they do today.

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#11

Re: WAR CLUB-Addendum Read HERE

Dale Stansbery

>Gary, I think you're pretty much right on all counts. However, I think the club pictured was probably ceremonial, and late enough to probably have been made by English wood working tools they got by trade. Most likely the earlier war clubs used for bashing heads were not so finely made, and were probably made by using limbs with crotch wood and more roughly carved.

I dabble in avocational archaeology, and we find evidence of flint woodworking tools as far back as there were inhabitants here. When you look at some of the beautiful work Native Americans (historic and prehistoric)have done in stone, it's not hard to believe they were capable of doing beautiful woodwork as well. Unfortunately, it has a very short life when left to the elements.

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#12

Re: WAR CLUB-Addendum Read HERE

Dale Stansbery

>Oh yes, I don't think they used lathes, so happy carving.

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#13

Leo Van Der Loo

Re: WAR CLUB

Leo Van Der Loo

>Gary I assume that these clubs where made with wood that was chosen for the needed shape, so as to have a stronger club and also to make it less work, your challenge is to find wood like that, if not you will have a problem with the strength issue, the other thing, is it necessary to make it out of one piece, could the ball be made out of the same wood but separate, and then glued or whatever, if you have to make it out of one piece, I could see it band sawn out into a T rather than the J you need, and hold the wood by the other half of the top bar of the T, then turn the ball and after that, saw the holding end off and carve the handle.

Just A thought, have fun and take care

Leo V

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#14

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JamieDonaldson

>Gary- forget the lathe and find a draw knife and spoke shave, after you find the crotch wood and bandsaw the blank!

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#15

Re: WAR CLUB-Addendum Read HERE

adrien

>"of Iroquois descent" Maybe. But why are there no tool marks on the sphere???

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#16

Re: WAR CLUB-Addendum Read HERE

Gary Smyth

>What is your point? What can I say? Go look at the club. Look at similar examples. Talk with the curator. With the right conditions, talent, and time, that club could have been made using rocks and grit.

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#17

Re: Like this ?

Todd Hughes

>These clubs like this were made after contact with whites and were carved no doubt using steel tools. While they are ornimental they were made to be used and to be a weapon.A very effective weapon too. This style is absolutly correct with many example known as well as period descriptions and illustrations. A fairly well known engraved powder horn from the period shows an Indian armed with a very simular weapon. Many would have a small iron spike on the end. These Indian tribes of this region had a long history of wood carvings and i don't think it would be that hard of a job for them to carve somthing like this with minimal tools. Often work like this was done in the winter when there was lots of time. I have made a few war clubs using all hand tools and out of one piece of wood using a crotch of a branch....wasn't that hard ....Todd