Art turning....bit long

Re:AMEN !

Brad Vietje

>

Amen, Amen Brother!!

Mark Kauder, Phenix City, AL

>You said that very well, my friend. I totally agree.

Now to "Stir the Puddin'" as they say down south:

I am particulary sensitive to some of "what is real woodturning" critique. Since my passion (at least now) is segmented turning, I have heard many a "Well, I turn REAL wood" comments.

My musings below in Wally's "Cheating" thread, are just that, random thoughts while bored at work. I love the work of Binh Pho, Andi Wolfe, Jacques Vessary, and that guy up in NY....what's his name....Oh, yeah, Keith Tompkins... etc. I only get a bit confused when I see work in an instant gallery and I cannot figure out where a lathe was used at all.

BUT, I do think that Wood/Turned art is a relatively new category, and like it or not, we will be catagorized. Is our work turning that has carving\painting, etc, or is it carving\painting where a lathe was also used.

Consider that, though most people do not know it, most ancient Greek statuary was painted after sculpting, though most don't know it since it has worn off over the intervening 2500 years. The artist may well have considered the sculpture a necessary canvas for his painting or the other way around. So is it a painting or a sculpture. Well, for most of us it does not matter, but if you have to place it in an art museum exhibit, where would it most likely be classified, Sculpture or Painting.

From a pure art standpoint - I Do Not Care!! It is just that I hear the same complaint at every symposium - (Joe Bowl Turner speaking) "My bowl cannot compete with THAT!!" pointing to art pieces like a Nittman Basket Illusion or a Bosch Vessel of Illusion. My response would be, well, first it is not a competition, except for attention or dollars... maybe AND if you view it as a competition, you need to start doing your own art work.

Again - just my opinion, and I am loving hearing everyone's points of view on these subjects.

Smiles everyone, Smiles

Mark

Re: Amen, Amen Brother!!

Keith Tompkins

>Thanks Mark. I teach a lot of beginning turners....I believe the way you learn, is the way you will remain turning. So, I won't let even a newbie leave a session with a poorly turned or sanded object.

Where do we draw the line? a year? two years until we make our best effort? No, make THIS piece the best you can do. With that attitude, the newbie won't have to go back and re-learn everything he's learned the wrong way.

Will we all ever reach the level of a Nittman or Vesery? Ellsworth? No, probably not. But, that's no reason not to do your best and at least try. TD said in one word what I wasted an essay on....EXCEL! PS: could anyone imagine working for an overbearing perfectionist jerk like me? LOL

Re: Art turning....bit long

David Hammond, in Powder Springs GA

>Wonderful post Keith! I followed the CNC threads, etc. just shortly, because I've been busy, and honestly haven't known how to summarize my random thoughts about the subject. But I think you have quite succinctly: it does indeed, to me, in the final analysis, come down to the level of quality - not neccessarily the amount of time, the use of extravagant materials or methods, but quality of craftsmanship and execution. I'm just beginning to learn something of that cold, hard, self critique that I see is vital to producing anything of quality.

Thanks.

David

Re: Art turning....bit long

Keith Tompkins

>David,I wish I was as wise as you when I was younger....I can only imagine the success you will enjoy through the years!

I wasted many years, and did not use my abilities to their fullest. I don't think you will make that mistake!

Re: Art turning....bit long

Duane C.Leach

>Working with my hands to bring out the beauty in wood is in my blood it's in my soul.

I always strive for perfection. Even though I know perfection is imposible to acheive I try anyway. Pushing myself closer each time. Each piece i turn is another opportunity to try to turn the perfect piece. When I am turning and my soul wakes up and takes over it seems like every cut I take adds to the beauty of the piece.And a state of euphoria comes over me. With these feelings how can I call woodturning work. I don't go to the shop to work. I go to the studio to have fun to commune with my soul and the wood.

If you foolishly ignore beauty you will soon find yourself without it. If you invest in beauty, it will remain with you all the days of your life.By Frank Loyd Wright. Some of what this bit of wisdom means to me is that I must do the best I posibly can on each turning. When I turn their is no such thing as "thats good enough".I guess I feel like that if I ever start "thats good enough" then that is the begining of total regression. Something that's very diffiuclt to stop.

I am ofent asked how this piece or that piece looks. And I find that just because some one can make the chips fly with expensive tools and expensive burl wood dosen't an artist make. The art I think is in ones soul and will find it's way out inspite of anything. But if it isn't there, if art is not in the soul of the turner then the beauty is only in the wood not the form.

Some people have good wood turning skills. And use them to make turnings that look like pieces of art someone else has done before. QUESTION is this art? To copy someone else's fun. I do it ,We all do it. I don't think there are any shapes that haven't been made, copied.

Anyway just a few of my ramblings.

Happy turning.

Duane

Re: Art turning....bit long

Earl

>Keith said: "Many people show me pieces they have made, and ask for my opinion. They often say " I know there are some sanding marks, I know the bottom is too big , too heavy, I know the form needs improving, etc. They really don't need MY critique, they just did their own! All I can ask is if you want to improve, then why don't you correct the problems you KNOW exist? "

Keith, this is a fascinating point for me. As a fairly new turner (about 1 1/2 years) I constantly critique my own work and see the sanding marks, know the shape isn't quite right, etc. I strive to be the best I can be and constantly experiment with new forms. I have sometimes thought that I would stop showing my pieces or even finishing them unless they are as good as I can make. Sometimes I think I would rather turn out one piece every few weeks that I am really proud of, and trash the rest, instead of turning out something everytime I can get to the lathe. As a hobbyist I could do this because I'm not trying to sell anything.

I also sometimes think that the continual discussion about art vs craft and the discussions about why some pieces don't sell is because we try to sell everything we make and alot of it is, quite frankly, quite ordinary. Why should I buy a bowl that, in similar form, can be seen in every other gallery or craft fair?

In painting, for instance, there are huge numbers of hobbyists--they paint because they love to paint, but they know their work will never sell, except maybe to a few friends. There are very few artists whose paintings sell for hugh sums. And even amongst those, most have rooms full of paintings that will never by seen by another person because they will only show their best. And this is the way it ought to be.

So if we want to "do art", maybe we ought to drastically reduce our output and spend far more time on design, originality and quality and "getting it right".

Earl

Re: Art turning....bit long

Don Orr

>Wow Keith, that is really a clear, concise, no nonsense commentary on what could make us all better at what we do no matter what it is. You really hit the nail on the head here. Do what you love and strive to do it the best you can. Shouldn't that be kind of self evident?

Thanks for the thoughtful discourse.

Don

Re: Art turning....bit long

Keith Tompkins

>Earl, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. I know turners who have made literally HUNDREDS of bowls.....and there is not a really good one in the lot.

Why not concentrate on making each piece something special? Instead of many mediocre pieces, make just one. One Great piece...a masterpiece.

My friend Rich Pagano recently passed away...he did not produce a great quantity of work. However, the pieces he did make were absolute masterpieces, that brought him world-wide recognition. Although he is no longer with us, he left behind a wonderful legacy. I can assure you, he always strived to achieve his best.

Woodturning is not a race....he who produces the most pieces does not win.

Re: Art turning....bit long

Keith Tompkins

>Hi Don, thanks, yes it should be evident, but in today's fast paced lifesyle, we need to slow down and appreciate the special things in life...take the time to do our best.. Like turning!

Re: Art turning....bit long

Mark Kauder. Phenix City, AL

>I want to second what Keith said about Rich Pagano, he did the most marvelous work.

As a segmented wood turner, I constantly hear other woodturners say, boy I would love to do that stuff, but I just don't have the patience. I try to tell them that 1) it does not take as long as they imagine it does, and 2) if you want to make it, it is just as enjoyable when it takes a little while. My bowls are taking 2-3 times to make now than they did when I first started, but I enjoy it just as much, and really feel proud when an accomplished turner looks at my current work and says, "Boy, you work is really improving with every bowl" or "Your joints are about as good as they could get now". That means more than selling anything.

I think one of the gifts and traps of woodturning is that you can put a piece of wood on a lathe, and a very short time later, you can have something to show someone. That is the draw for some people, but if they would spend just a little more time - 1) they would have a better product, 2) They would have more fun hours in the shop, and 3) they would not waste as much good wood.

Mark

Re: Art turning....bit long

Keith Tompkins

>If you attended the Orlando symposium, you know Mark's work was a big hit....

the reason is the quality of the pieces!