Poolewood, gone or not?

Re: Poolewood, gone or not? *LINK*

Bapa

>TD

Here is their website. It looks like they are still here!!

Bapa


http://www.poolewood.co.uk/

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

John Trant (Baltimore/WashDC)

>But I didn't see a Poolewood lathe for sale.

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

W.C. Turner

>CLICK ON THE LINKS. sOUNDS LIKE THEY ARE TAKING ORDERS FOR LATHES ONLINE.

SORRY FOR THE SHOUT.

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

Mike Swain

>Hi all,

Poolewood as a company are still there selling other makes of lathe, garden equipment, dolls and some bits 'n' bobs.

They have discontinued all their range of Poolewood and Euro lathes.

Regards....Mike

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

RonZ

>You're correct and their site has announced a new Poolewood DVSL (Direct Variable Speed Lathe].

Not gone! ...Note from US Dealer

David Propst

>I e-mailed the US dealer about this because I want an outboard rest for my Euro 2000.

He replied "Actually, Poolewood isn't getting out of the lathe business at all. They're just re-designing the machine and looking for another foundry to do the casting"

David

Re: Not gone! ...Note from US Dealer

Mike Swain

>David,

A few weeks ago my in tray had an email from Terry Davies the boss of Poolewood, the mail simply said:

Hi Mike,

We have discontinued all our Euro Lathes.

Regards Terry.

The replacement castings problem was quite a few months ago.

Regards....Mike Swain

Creative Woodturning UK

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>I have been trying to get a straight story from someone - anyone! - who might be in a position to know something. Terry Davis never returned my email, although he has been very good about doing so in the past. All the lathes on their site are gone, along with the links to testimonials (like mine on my site). So, they have no lathes for sale, and with their exceedingly complicated website, I could not find any statement of intent to start selling them again in any way shape or form.

I love my Poolewood lathe. I have owned it longer than any other lathe I have ever owned, and it is as fresh for me as the day I bought it. Unlike my other lathes, there has been absolutely no longing for something better. It is very frustrating to see a company just go away like this. I am not concerned for my own machine. There is nothing on it that cannot be fixed or replaced locally, with the possible exception of breaking the ways. Even if the controller should go belly up, there are ways to replace that. I should be set for the rest of my life with this machine.

However, as I wrote to David Propst in an email, I have to look at it like I now own a collector's item, a curiosity that appeared for a brief time, and that while it is a superior machine, it was made by people who did not know how to communicate that to the rest of the world. Think about that for a moment. The largest market for this stuff is the US of A. How many of you ever saw a Poolewood ad in a US magazine, or saw Poolewood at a trade show or symposium? I will venture not many, if any. It is one of the best kept secrets of the turning world.

Now consider Oneway. You can't turn around without seeing Oneway ads plastered all over the place. The Oneway is also a fine machine, and the people at Oneway understood what it took to get the rest of us to learn that. Unfortunately Poolewood never seemed to grasp that. They relied on the reputation of a few famous turners to be their sole support and while that helps, it is not enough. You can say anything you want about Oneway being close. I say that doesn't matter. The Chinese seem to have no problem getting their stuff over here with names like Jet and Delta and Grizzly plastered on the machines. Even Harbor Freight does a better job of advertising their stuff!

Most of this is my considered opinion, and is not meant to be a swipe at Poolewood or anyone else. It is just my observation watching them and how they sell their equipment here in the US. Maybe they will be back, but I am not standing on one foot waiting.

Bill

Re: Standing On One Foot

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>That wouldn't be in the tu tu, would it, Bill?

Perhaps this is a good example that nothing, even corporations, lives forever. How many tool-making companies around today were active 50 years ago? 25? How many of those catered to the "high end" market?

The way of the world is that Poolewood, and Stubby, and Oneway, and Nichols, and Serious ( and Delta, Porter Cable, etc.) were/are all destined to become "Old Iron" collector's items.

We just happen to be lucky enough to be around to use them when they're new.

|;-}

Re: Standing On One Foot

Mark in Chalfont

>NICELY PUT...

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

Russ Fairfield

>You can say all of those same things about the Serious Lathe. In that case the owners real business is a steel warehouse. I don't think he ever got "serious" about selling lathes.

Re: Standing On One Foot

Arch

>Mark, I totally agree with you about companies and their products having their time in the sun. Also, I think nobody can be sure that they own today the ultimate lathe for the rest of their life. There was a time when steet car stock was a prime investment! Usually the products that the business school suits offer, when they try to ride on the name of a good company that failed, are mediocre. Delta tools and Myford Lathes come to mind, and Poolwood lathes are not likely to ever be the same. (Russ protect me from flames)

Turn to Safety, Arch

Re: Standing On One Foot

Arch

>Mark, I totally agree with you about companies and their products having their time in the sun. Also, I think nobody can be sure that they own today, the ultimate lathe for the rest of their life. There was a time when steet car stock was a prime investment! Usually the products that the business school suits offer, when they try to ride on the name of a good company that failed, are mediocre. Delta tools and Myford Lathes come to mind, and Poolwood lathes are not likely to ever be the same. (Russ, protect me from the flames)

Turn to Safety, Arch

On Two Feet

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Let's remember that any company has the right, often the obligation, to remake itself and redesign it's product line to remain viable in their chosen market.

I seem to remember that Poolewood was (and may yet again be) more of a local (England, etc.) company who got "discovered over here" in a market that was not of their chosing. Remember, too, that the US market is very large and not a little daugnting with a informed and demanding customer base. To chase that market, a maker such as Poolewood would have to make a large commitment which also brings obligations that they may not have been able or willing to fulfill "across-the-pond".

Americans can be the biggest hicks in the world for many reasons, one of which is that we tend to assume the whole world is chasing the Almighty American Dollar (regardless of the exchange rate), and can't concieve of a seller who would not want a slice of Our Pie. (Exit Don McClean, stage left)

If the boys (and girls) at Poolewood have nixed their former foundry deal and have taken the opportunity to redesign their machine, should we not hold off on our lament on the unfairness of it all until we see if something good comes of it?

Per'aps the reports of their death are a bit premature . . .

M

Re: On Two Feet

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Mark, I don't see where anyone is lamenting or calling their decision unfair. For myself, I naturally assumed that they wanted to sell lathes over here, since they were in fact selling lathes over here. I am not sure how you can draw the conclusion that they didn't really want to sell here, but were drawn into it. It is simple enough to say, we don't want to go that way. Maybe that is exactly what they did, but it should be easy enough to say so directly without having to tapdance around.

As for being provincial (or a hick, as you put it) in assuming that the rest of the world is trying to get a piece of our market, again, I think that is borne out in the fact that they are here selling stuff. A lot of the world is not here, and does not want to be here, but a lot of the world would like nothing more than to be here and get a piece of the action. In my own experience, I am selling DVDs all over the world because people in other countries are buying DVD players that will play DVDs made for region 1, which is the US and is not the region that they are in. Despite all the doom and gloom preached on the evening news about how evil the US is, lots of people still think this is the place to be. Just ask thousands of Mexicans coming across the border every day. Contrast that with the Soviet Union, which built fences to keep people in.

Regardless of Poolewood's reasoning or their logic, they didn't do it right here. If they wanted to sell here, they did a lousy job of education and promotion. If they didn't want to sell here, then why were they here in the first place? And now there is this, the rumors, the conflicting stories, etc. They are certainly free as a company to do whatever they darn well please. That does not make it right, or even sensible.

Final comment (for now) - at the picnic, we had a gentleman here who came from England. He told me he was very interested to see my lathe, as in his experience, Poolewood was the Harbor Freight of the UK. He was impressed that they had gone to selling some very high quality stuff. I cannot imagine a board meeting where the decision is made to go back to selling cheap Chinese crap that doesn't work when they are on the way up with quality stuff. Of course, no one there invited me or solicted my opinion.

Bill

Re: Lamentations

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>'Scuse, Bill, but I caught a tone in several comments to the effect that owners and prospective owners were very disappointed in your lathe manufacturer's, as yet poorly understood and unverified, demise. Now if I misinterpreted those comments, well, that's okay, and no pejorative intended, but your reply again uses highly judgmental words like "right", "sensible", "tapdancing" (obscure tu-tu reference deleted), and "I bought this great lathe and paid over very hard-earned big bucks and now they won't even answer an e-mail," (probable misquotation and mischaracterization acknowledged).

What I was pointing out was that there is a wide difference between selling into the US market, and marketing product here. Any foreign lathe manufacturer would be rather foolish to turn down cash sales orders, coming from, say David Ellsworth, just because those machines will be going to The Colonies. But accepting those orders is not even close to actively marketing the product here as in advertising, trade shows, distributior networking, bobble-head dolls, etc.; all the stuff that Oneway does (Okay, maybe not the bobble-heads). All of that costs a whole lot of bucks, as in devalued-against-the-pound dollars, which ultimately come out of the foreign company's bottom line in their local currency.

It seems to me that you seem to think that because Poolewood sold lathes to an American entrepreneur (say David) who transports, imports, and resells them, that they owe some duty of continuity or disclosure to the people who buy the lathes from that business man. Why does it sound like you're more than a bit peeved at Poolewood for not announcing the whole thing in the Wall Street Journal (obvious exageration for effect only) in order to quell the rumors? "You colonials are on your own. We're out of the lathe business for good." or "Hey, Loyal Followers, don't sweat this, we're just taking a break for retooling and making our product even better. Stay tuned for our new whiz-bang models coming to a dealer near you in the future." - Or maybe something in between - would serve what actual purpose other than to satisfy someone's curosity?

As far as the Board meeting goes, that group is in business to make money. If they make twice or thrice the amount on their investment by selling that Chinese [deleted before Russ does], that is the decision they ARE going to make, and the guy at the end of the table (probably the original owner) who protests about such things as top quality prestege products that cost three times as much and are marginally profitable is going to get buried under the extra copies of the Annual Report.

I'd also be a bit careful about the Chinese Cliche, however. THAT's an economy of 3 billion that's coming on like gangbusters with the skills and resources to bury ANY company in the world, head-to-head, quality-for-quality, and product-for-product if they chose to do so. I'm old enough to remember the jingoistic drumbeats of Fifties, and I find it ironic that good old Yankee Capitolism is indeed taking over the world. Problem for us Yankees is we didn't plan on outsourcing, or the sleeping giants of the world actually learning to be as good at our game as we are.

Ah, well. Maybe Omega will be the next victim and I can lament about my Stubby becoming a collectors item. Hey, wait a minute . . . Collector's Item? As in rare, out-of-print, hard-to-find? As in Worth-way-more-than-I-paid-for-it? H-m-m-m-m

|;-}}

Mark

Hey, Guys! ...Get used to it......

Jesper, Denmark

>The comment was made: "The Chinese seem to have no problem getting their stuff over here with names like Jet and Delta and Grizzly plastered on the machines."

Let us just note that this is USA companies electing to have their stuff outsourced. The driving factor comes from the Brand owner and marketer - not from some devious little man hidden somewhere in Asia with any evil intention.

As I see it, it does not matter as long as the Brand owner have the intention and moxi to protect their brand quality. Short term - very short term, we may see a shift in manufacturing to Asia, but there are already signs of a reversal. The real wages in Asia are rising, bringing a demand for high technology products to be imported from the West. "We" just have to adapt and adjust, just as we always have had to.

It is no different than the shift from horse and buggy to automobiles and planes, from wood and coal to oil and gas, from the farm economy to industrialization etc. The US market driven technology made it possible - it would be naive to now expect others not to also take advantage of it.

In just a few years, China will be the biggest market in the World, and we better start finding stuff to sell them.

It will take a focus shift away from our bellybuttens towards the rest of the World. Even though Shakespeare in Romeo and Juliet stated: "There is no world without Verona walls,

but purgatory, torture, hell itself." we have better figure out that there is indeed a World outside our own Verona.

This got quite far away from Poolewood. As I see that question, it's a shame if they stop making the machines which some people really like. If they perceive thay cannot make a profit from it, it would be really dumb to continue.

Jesper

Re: Lamentations

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Good morning Mark

I think we need to add some perspective to this thing. You are a lawyer. I am a theologian. You think in subjective terms, I think in absolute. So, what you call judgmental, I call clear speech. There is really nothing wrong with the language I am using beyond your willingness to understand it in its simplicity without any "tones or undercurrents". This reminds me of The Old Man and The Sea by Ernest Hemingway. Many of us here were forced by well meaning English teachers to read that book and spend all sorts of time and energy deciphering the words for his figurative meaning. In Hemingway's own words, the book was about a man, the sea, and a fish. There was no imagery intended. Please read my words with the same direct meaning.

I am not going to spend the time to go into a point by point defense, or to try and explain myself to you. I think your words have gone beyond a thoughtful exchange. I will say that yes, a company has a duty to its customers to at least say yes, we are out of business, or no, we aren't. I just wrote that they failed to answer an email asking that very simple direct question. You are engaging in hyperbole to say anything else, especially with your "Wall Street Journal" comment. And, I do have a right to be curious. I have invested a significant amount of time and money in this machine, and I depend on it for my living. It would be a comfort to know that I will be able to get parts in the rare instance that I need them, or be prepared to look elsewhere. I am not sure I understand why you think that is unreasonable.

Finally, and I do mean final this time, I will address your Chinese cliche comment. By the way I am not your child or subordinate, and I do not need to be told to be careful in how I speak, or in this case write. What Chinese cliche? In the first part I made the comment that distance did not prevent the Chinese from getting their products over here under various labels. That is an observable fact. If they can do it from the opposite side of the world, or more accurately, if companies based here in America can import Chinese goods, then it is obvious that distance is not an impediment to business. Second, I am well aware that the Chinese will build to the level of quality dictated by the company for whom they are building. Left to themselves, or more accurately, to the calculations of some of those companies, the level of quality is abysmal. Again, that is an observable fact. If you have not been able to observe it, I suggest a trip to your local Harbor Freight store.

I am sorry this discussion had to degenerate to this level, and I am getting out of it. You may respond if you choose, or even take it up privately, but for my part this has gone beyond a profitable discussion for this board.

Bill Grumbine

Re: Hey, Guys! ...Get used to it......

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Jesper

My only meaning in that comment was that if the Chinese can get their stuff halfway around the world, others should be able to do so as well, regardless of which end the company is on. You already know the cosmopolitan makeup of my shop. It is even more so now, with tools from Italy, Germany, England, and China. My American tools have moved on to the shops of others in recognition that this is a global economy. ;-)

Bill

Re: Agreed

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>What should have been a friendly exchange of opinions expressed from different perspectives has gotten way too serious, and much too personal and confrontational when I'm sure neither was intended.

Bill, I certainly had no intention to "instruct" you nor to limit your speech in any way; you need neither from me or anyone else.

I shall go back and review the postings in this thread to try to discern the how and why this exchange between friends went wrong. Hopefully to avoid such results in the future.

Peace (& Good Will!)

Mark

Re: Hey, Guys! ...Get used to it......

Stuart Johnson

>"My only meaning in that comment was that if the Chinese can get their stuff halfway around the world, others should be able to do so as well, regardless of which end the company is on."

I read one time that Japan has no real natural resources (steel, oil, type stuff) and is roughly the size of Montana. Yet at that time the U.S.A. was not competitive with Japanese products and was being bought up by Japan. Things have changed somewhat but I have always thought it is a national shame that our country can't or won't do more quality production at reasonable prices for U.S.A. consumption. We worry about the dollar, exports versus imports but won't take steps to correct our internal policies. This is not a political statement just my way of looking at things.

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

Tim Grenville-Cleave

>The only thing I can add to this thread is this pathetic little note.

There has been a lot of activity on eBay (UK) lately (search on 'woodturning' )somone is selling Expensive US style fridges etc but also abrasives, dolls & cookers in fact allsorts ... the links etc the seller gives lead to the Poolewood site. Some time ago I must admit to wondering why, however I put it down to house clearing/garage sale sort of thing. Just boosting income during the lean times.

I am sure it will all come out in the wash, with everybodys questions answered.

I know, I know...but.....

Jesper, Denmark

>These discussions occasionally have had a habit of turning into an us or them type of situation.

My comments are/were intended to illustrate that market forces will play - and all we can do - all of us - are to react to them.

I personally feel that the current globalization will in the longer term help to make a more even world with more trade and more political stability and more opportunity for those who will see them and react to them. It will be safer for all and a better world for it with a more even playing field.

Those who have benefited too much for too little input will come up short. Those who will put out for a just reward will prosper.

Re: Poolewood, gone or not?

adrien

>Terry, after looking at their site, I get the impression that a newer (and presumably better) lathe is in the last stages of parturition.

So instead of mourning, perhaps you should celebrate?