What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

John Lucas

>Dave

I have a handfull of spindle gouges. My most frequently used one has a grind similar to my bowl gouge. I'd say about 65 degree with swept back wings. It's a 3/8 gouge. Then I have another one of the same thing but I've ground this one really sharp. I'll guess at 30 35 degrees. This one is for reaching into really tight areas or cuttint the final tenon off of bowl bottoms.

Then I have a 1/2" that's ground to about 45 degrees and I've ground off the bottom so the bevel is shorter. I use this one an awful lot. It's a Henry Taylor.

I have on old Diaminic 1" spindle gouge that I sharpened to about 35 degrees. I like it for turning long tapers and such but it's might grabby when turning coves. I have an old Sears carbon tool that's about 1/2" and ground similar to this one that isn't nearly as grabby at the the start of the cut. I'm not sure exactly why that is.

My 1/4" gouge is sharpened like a bowl gouge but maybe a little less angle at the tip. Probably 50 or 55 degrees.

Needless to say I have a lot of jury rigged sharpening jigs or I simply sharpen by hand.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Russ Fairfield

>Dave,

The angle of the bevel relates to the quality of the cut and how difficult it is to control. The lesser the angle between the bevel and the bottom of the flute, the smoother the cut, BUT the more difficult it will be to control.

A tool with a 25 degree angle will leave a smooth surface, it cuts with less force making it easier to move, and you will be able to cut softer wood without tear-out: BUT it will be very grabby and very prone to digging in and catching on the wood. Part of the control problem comes for there being far less cutting force against the tool.

A tool with a 45 degree angle will be easier to control, and not as prone to catches; but the sacrifice is that the wood surface will be rougher, and there will be more tear-out on softer wood.

Which angle you use will depend on your skills and how much you are willing to practice with the smaller tool angles. It you can use a 35 degree tool, that is a reasonable compromise between "catches" and quality.

Be careful how the bevel is measured. The angle at the tip, the one the wood sees, will be less than measured if it is done with a straight edge that spans the concave gap between the cutting edge and the heal of the bevel. A lot of folks have trouble with spindle gouges because they are trying to use an angle that is several degrees less than what they are measuring.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

John Weeks

>40 degrees is a good compromise between the ability to enter tight places and the ability to control the gouge.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Brad Vietje

>My 2 cents is that everyone's right.

As John points out, a variety of gouges/bevels allows you to do a wide variety of work.

I'm with Russ: since this is a detail gouge, I'm assuming you will use it for detail work, and not long, gentle curves on a newel post. I'd start with about 35 degrees, and practice tool control with it. I use about 45 degrees for spindle roughing gouges, and 35 degrees for general purpose spindle gouges, and I have two 3/8" detail gouges that are 35- and 25 degrees for finer detail work.

Since more angles are needed, a single tool won't do, and you'll just have to keep collecting turning tools ! Sorry about that bit of bad news ;)

Safe Spinning,

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

John Lucas

>Dave

See we are trying to give you every excuse in the world to buy more tools. Oops I mean Santa can bring more tools.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Keith Tompkins

>Holy smokes! I knew I sharpened my detail gouges at a severe angle, but this post piqued my curiosity...53 degrees, on average. Why? I use these things almost exclusively on their side, the flute 90 degrees to the tool rest, right on center to the turning. The sharp angle allows me to start a cut with little chance of skittering around; point the tool where I want it to go, even straight in, as trueing up the end of a cylinder. The resulting cut is glass smooth. The sharp angle also creates a long bevel.....I can ride that long bevel for a smooth, flowing curve.

I also use these tools to hollow end-grain forms, no need to drill a starter hole, the detail gouge is used as a drill, then draw the tool towards the rim, from the center outward.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

George Van

>�Be careful how the bevel is measured. The angle at the tip, the one the wood sees, will be less than measured if it is done with a straight edge that spans the concave gap between the cutting edge and the heal of the bevel. A lot of folks have trouble with spindle gouges because they are trying to use an angle that is several degrees less than what they are measuring.�

Russ, I am unclear as to what this means. I set the leg of the protractor on the bottom of the flute and measure the angle by swinging the body parallel to the bevel on the tip of the spindle gouge. Am I getting a misleading reading?

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Brad Vietje

>Keith,

How are you measuring the angle ? Are you measuring metal or air ? When I refered to 35 degrees, I'm measuring the angle subtended by solid metal, from the flute to the bevel. That is, a 25 deg. angle would be a real long flute, while a 50 or 60 degree bevel angle would be much shorter... Do I have this all wrong ? Are you measuring 90 degrees minus 53 to get a 37 degree "cone" of metal ? If there's a convention about these measurements, I'd like to set myself straight.

Safe Spinning,

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Russ Fairfield

>I have always used the terms "tool angle" and "relief angle" to define the two angles.

The "tool angle" is that angle of solid metal between the two surfaces of the tool. This what you would measure with an angle gauge with the tool in hand.

The "relief" angle is that amount of steel removed from the square end of the tool blank to make the bevel.

To me, referring to what isn't there has always been a bass-ackwards way of measuring a cutting tool. I prefer to measure what I can see, not what I can't

Uortunately, we have to preface everything we say about cutting tools with a definition of terms.

Thanks Russ

George Van

>

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Dave Smith, Longview, WA

>Thanks for the input, couple more ???

I have several turning tools that were purchased in a nice plastic case that I am about to toss out(case not tools). I had two spindle gouges stored in it when I finally found the case. I believe it is a Delta set bought about 5 years ago, when I started turning, so I would expect the steel to be at least HSS but there are no markings to indicate that.

All angles are measured on the material I have in hand. Putting an angle on air doesn't help me much.

I used my Tormek and ground a 25 degree angle on a 1/4" spindle gouge. I used the Tormek universal gouge jig on the #3 setting with 2.5" of the gouge extended. I made a trip to the grinder for some free hand steel removal before doing the finish grinding on the Tormek. The gouge is easier to use on detail work but the edge seems to wear quickly.

I took a 5/8" Greenly spindle gouge that was given to me when I started turning and ground it to the same profile as the 1/4" gouge. I find this gouge is much easier to control than a spindle gouge with a more traditional straight grind at a larger angle. I am going to try 30 degrees on an other spindle gouge I have.

All of my spindle gouges have very shallow flutes. At what depth does a spindle gouge become a bowls gouge?

I have found that a gouge no matter what the designation is easier to control if it is ground with swept back wings. Why are most gouges, and especially spindle gouges, ground nearly straight across?

I have several tools that are not labeled HSS. Does that mean that they are mild steel and should be ground into paint can openers?

I saw a P&N turning tool ad that had a "Jensen Grind" gouge. What is a Jensen Grind?

Do I need to come up with a "Dave Smith" or a "Longview" grind to become famous in turning.

Dave Smith

Infamous in Longview, WA.

Re: What angle for a detail spindle gouge?

Keith Tompkins

>it's better to come up with the "Dave Smith" signature turning, then the video, then the signature tool grind......LOL

Re: Dave Smith Alcohol Drying protocol

Karl in IA

>You already have something named for you!