Creating a milk safe finish?

Re: Creating a milk safe finish?

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Mike, I might be doing my usual over thinking of the problem, but here goes.

No finish is good for ever. So when creating a finish we think first of, under what conditions? and for how long? You have given us the conditions, so the question becomes, what is a reasonable amount of time? When you ask this question of finishes you also have to throw in the question, with what upkeep?

Simple wax will withstand the ten minutes or so that the surface will be saturated. And it will certainly not contaminate the milk product. How often can we repeat the process before upkeep is required? I'm guessing seven times in one week. With repeated application as necessary, the wax method will last forever. I'm thinking if this is a person, like myself, who enjoys a weekly routine of winding the grandfather clock and doing the odd chore, then waxing the cereal bowl weekly will be a pleasant ritual. (no good for Goldilocks and her hot porridge)

Other finishes will last longer between the need for upkeep. But, the upkeep becomes more of a problem. Reapplication of oils, shellacs, varnishes and resins, is not easily carried out by most users. I'm afraid that such chores have become like changing motor oils, so few do it themselves anymore. and with the vast array of finishes available on the market, it is not likely that the same product will always be used.

So why not use a finish first? and then have the following upkeep be done with wax? That works well for furniture, and even banister rails, where the lack of wax will not be a problem for the finishe's integrity for a short period until the user gets round to doing the upkeep. But in this case, I think it will be easier to identify the failing wax film if there is no finish underneath the wax.

My recommendation for wax would be "Butcherwax" or "Treewax" or any other proprietary brand that contains over 90% Carnauba.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Creating a milk safe finish?

Mike Schwing from Md.

>Sam, I'm far from a finishing expert, but I think your first sentence summed it up great, but in a different manner than you intended.

No finish lasts forever.

Exactly. A "no finish" finish - it'll last forever. It'll never need to be reapplied, and the natural oils that will attach to the bowl from the milk, hands, and other food stuffs will eventually seal the surface in pretty well.

????

I like your thinking Mike.

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

I tend to think that way myself Mike. But there is the rancidity factor and the health and cleanliness thing to consider. It is always so hard to explain to people, that the "no finish" will, in time, develop a healthy end product. There are some interesting recent studies by the university of Wisconsin that compare the food safe conditions of wooden cutting boards verses plastic cutting boards. And surprising as it seems, the wooden ones, with no finish, win out because of an interesting beneficial bacteria that is in the wood. It seems that this bacteria defeats any rancidity, whereas in the plastic cutting boards, small microbes and harmful bacteria lived in the damaged surfaces even after washing.

But, not being a biologist, I'm always reluctant to quote that information, and try to get folks to go naked. When giving finishing advice for food receptacles I would suggest creating a barrier of some kind. Just to be on the safe side. I have been known to advocate naked wood for wine goblets though. I guess my thinking there is that the alcohol is going to react with any finish to some degree and naked is the best of the evils.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Creating a milk safe finish?

Mike Rubes, Apex, NC

>Hi guys,

I think you've talked me into it. I cannot quite decide between naked and just the wax, but am going to go one of those ways. I think I'll take a hint from management and let the customer decide! I'll turn the bowl and give her the option of wax or no wax and let her decide.

Thanks guys,

I hope she/he likes it.

Mike

Ready to be a fly on the wall for the chat tonight in Apex, NC!!!

Re: Creating a milk safe finish?

Andrew Hilton

>Just the (grocery store pure) walnut oil is fine but it's not always easily found and can lead to a degree of taste transfer if it's not fully cured. The Walnut Oil will cure *in* the wood and help to protect it more than a non-drying oil or nothing at all. It'll, of course, need to be refreshed periodically by the owner and this is where they may not have the time to let it sit to be fulled cured. Not a problem, healthwise, unless they are sensitive to Walnut ... maybe.

Mineral oil, on the other hand, is easily purchased and the basic rule of maintaining a wooden bowl (or any wooden kitchenware for that matter) is to replenish the oil (in this case the mineral oil) after lightly but completely hand washing the item. A light coating of mineral oil and it's ready for the next use for breakfast in the morning. The mineral oil will never cure, but that's not a problem here. It'll also be no health threat or transfer taste or color.

Any film building finish (urethanes, lacquer, shellac, etc.) is going to break down quickly in this usage situation. Looks good for awhile and really protects the wood for awhile but it'll break down and then you have problems. The same problems as leaving it unfinished (see below) as well as some chipping, cracks, uneven wear making it noticable.

Leaving it unfinished is fine. I do this on many pieces but I do it when it makes sense. I do it when the project calls for it and not just as a matter of course. Don't expect your (theirs now) nice bowl to look good for terribly long as a wet (Milk) cereal container! It's a nice throwback to our turning ancestors to leave things unfinished. It sells at the renaissance festivals and get-togethers just fine but that's a different situation altogether. Ever seen old kitchenware at a flea market or antique mall, etc. that was left unfinished AND used for this kind of wet-work? Cracks, blotches, terrible warping and muddled, nasty appearance is what they all have in common. Now, for other non-wet uses, it's a fine idea and actually works well EXCEPT when storing really dry items like flour in them. The unfinished wood likes moisture and instead of just wicking it out of the flour, it takes it from the atmosphere and holds it/transfers it TO the flour. Your flour will not like you for it. Salad bowls are about as "wet" as I'd ever go with an unfinished wood product. Actually, it DOES have a finish .. it's just user applied every time they put oil on their salad.

Waxes, and even the hard pure Carnauba wax, aren't going to hold up very long to a kid, spoon and their marshmellow-infused sugar cereal or even the straw-bale cereals of the older set. Not to mention that most "normal" people don't have their own buffers to apply wax or can even find the kind of wax they need to replenish the finish themselves. Wax/buff it to make the sale or make it look nice for a short time but don't expect it to do much else.

If it were me, and I do a lot of kichenware production-items, I'd use a drying/curing oil like walnut or pure Tung first. Let it cure. Tell the owners to refresh the finish when needed by using a light wiping of Mineral Oil. You have the benefits of a curing oil and an easily owner-applied oil too.

Re: Creating a milk safe finish?

Robert Simmons, Atlanta

>You can try using a combination of mineral oil and paraffin. While still on the lathe, put on some oil, then run a block of paraffin over the surface. Melt it in with a rag. The oil helps the warm wax penetrate the surface of the wood and gives it a good seal that works well for food contact. Ocasional re-applications of a light wipe of oil will keep it in good shape. You'll want to seal the end grain of the wood, I wouldn't want most of the components of the milk soaking into the wood. They'll support bacterial growth - not a good thing for a cereal bowl.

Robert