Outrigger frustration

Re: All you need is an extension.

Al Crandall

>Hi Wil. Tough break on getting your hopes dashed so quickly but all is not lost. You need to space the outrigger a few inches farther from your lathe headstock for the occasional bowl which won't fit as it now stands. It should be a simple matter to mount a short piece of square or rectangular heavy wall tubing, or a piece of angle iron, to your lathe using the holes which now hold your outrigger. Then mount your outrigger to this new spacer. Looks like four bolts is all you would need. Be aware that you might have need of some additional vertical bracing to offset the forces from the tool post which will be acting on a longer lever arm. You don't want to break that new outrigger the first time out.

Stay within the limits of your equipment

TDaniel

>Extending work beyond the limits of your equipment can result in personal injury or damage to your equipment so use extreme care when doing this. We have all done it but there are many of us who can attest to the dangers from it. The most common over-extension of equipment that I see is going deeper with a hollowing tool than it is designed for. The manufacturer says "10 inches deep and we immediately go for 12, etc. We need to discipline ourselves to not over-extend. (But who am I to talk?)

TD

Re: All you need is an extension.

John Lucas

>Al's response is great. I got rid of mine before I got around to solving the distance problem. To turn my largest bowl on the Nova with outrigger I had to actually remove the outrigger banjo, remove the bowl, move the outrigger and then put the bowl back on. Put the outrigger banjo back on and then turn some more.

I also had vibration problems from having the banjo that far out on the outrigger arm. I think this thing was designed to let you turn large platters or large shallow bowls. I got around the problem by using a long piece of all-thread. I put a pipe flange on the bottom and then 2 nuts with a washer on top on the top side. I would put this in the bottom groove of the outrigger and then adjust the nuts and washer so they pushed up slightly on the outrigger. This cut the vibration but since my floor wasn't level every time I move the tool rest I had to readjust the bottom.

That and the low mass of the machine itself made me sell it and buy a Powermatic 3520. I don't turn much big stuff because it simply doesn't sell around here and my family doesn't need pieces that large. The mass of the Powermatic makes run so much smoother on smaller pieces that are out of balance.

Re: Outrigger frustration

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Wil

How about a different approach? Take the bowl off the chuck and glue it to a waste block screwed to a faceplate. That should give you the space you need to finish it up. It will also save you some money.

Bill

Re: Outrigger frustration

Andy in Raleigh

>I haven't done this and I am a relative novice turner, so this is more the comment of someone just looking at the setup in a general way...

When you are at 90 degrees to the bed and stand, there is a lot of leverage as you move further out. I suspect that the extension is that size to keep you from hanging big hunks o' wood too far out on that lever and destabilizing the lathe. I would investigate other alternatives for holding the bowl blank to get it closer to the headstock.

This from a guy...

BubbaBob

>...that turnsbowls 20 ft in diameter (slight exaggeration)and who needs an engine hoist to mount his SMALL blanks and a forklift to mount his big 'uns...

BubbaBob

Re: Outrigger frustration

Don Evans

>I'm missing something here and can figure out what it is.

The bowl you have mounted will fit over the ways, but your last picture shows the lathe with the head turned 90 deg's and your trying to use the outrigger setup. My question is why?

Why don't you just turn the head back over the ways and turn it that way? The log blanks you show are also within the size range to fit over the ways.

Why do you need to turn it 90 deg's and use the outrigger?

Sorry if I've overlooked the obvious.

Don

Re: Outrigger frustration

Darryl Hansen

>I use a faceplate rather than a chuck which helps a bit. There are limits to the Nova outrigger though that I guess we need to learn to live with.

Re: Outrigger frustration

Brad Vietje

>Wil,

I'll bet the depth of bowl possible is purposely limited so you aren't too tempted to swing something too large and too far away from the headstock bearings ... By mounting on a faceplate, as Bill suggests, you can use the outrigger, but also get the mass closer to the headstock, which will result in less vibration, and less wear on the bearings.

I also agree with Ron, but I'm assuming you are getting some outrigger practice before turning the larger logs. Is the situation the same turning off the end of the bed (headstock turned 180 degrees instead of 90 ? You might just have to limit the depth of your bowls until a suitable floor-supported solution can be found. I wouldn't use an extension without a rugged support bearing the downward forces into the floor.

Safe Spinning,

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: Outrigger frustration

Wil Zirkle

>I only have 16 inch capacity over the ways. The bowl in the pictures is 14 inches I roughed it in over the ways. It is the depth of the bowl that I was testing out.

I expect to get a 20 inch bowl out of the logs in the picture it will not fit over the ways, which is why I got the outrigger. I also intend to use it roughing in bowls like the 14 inch one, because when the corners (roughed in with chainsaw) are still on it would not fit between the ways.

Wil

Re: Outrigger frustration

Wil Zirkle

>Brad

I have not tried it at 180 yet, the instructions said the maximum yield was at 90. From just looking at it I don�t think I will get that much more space.

Waste Block / Face Plate

Wil Zirkle

>Bill / Others,

I have never glued a waste block on. How do you get it centered? What should I make it out of? How thick do I need it, I can put in 8 screws into the faceplate that came with my DVR (so is there a rule for length of screw x number of screws x weight of piece)? Finally what glue is best to use?

Wil

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>I use waste blocks in most of my turnings. With the blank mounted on the lathe using a screw chuck or faceplate, prepare the base as you would for any other glue joint. True and flat. With the lathe on, mark with a pencil an outline a little larger than the waste block. Leaving the blank mounted on the faceplate, remove it from the lathe and glue it on. You can use yellow glue, but I use med. CA glue. Use lots of it. If the glue joint fails it's usually because not enough glue was used. Mount the piece back on the lathe and again with a pencil, mark center if a screw chuck is to be used, or mark a pencil outline about the dia. of the faceplate to be used. Now remove the blank and mount the faceplate on the waste block. Unless the piece is quite large, 4 screws are enough. Use at least size 12 screws. I use a full 4/4 material for my waste blocks. 5/4 or 6/4 might be better so that longer screws can be used. Don't use screws so long that you don't have room to part the piece off when it's finished. I use alder, but most any wood can be used except plywood. Just make sure that it's flat and true for the glue joint.

Wally

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Wil

The screws can be as long as you want as long as they don't stick out the other side! Eight screws should be plenty for most things, although if Nova is still selling those cheesy aluminum faceplates, you might want to invest in something a little sturdier. For glue, I have been using a method I learned from Ken Bullock in Canada, and it is working out very well. I got hold of a second hand electric frying pan ($3.00) and use it to melt hot melt glue sticks. It works real well for this, but once you use it, you are committed to using it for that and nothing else from then on.

Melt the glue, which only takes a few minutes, and dip the end of the waste block into the hot glue. This stuff will burn, so be careful not to get any on you. It doesn't wipe off very easily! Then stick it fast to the bottom of your blank, which should be trued up by now. While it should be pretty close to flat, the hot melt is a lot more forgiving than white or yellow glue, and it does not have the shear strength problems that CA glues has. Use light pressure for a moment or two, and then let it sit for a few more. Once it is cool, you are ready to turn. I would suggest that you try this method out over the ways first, where you can use the tailstock for insurance until you are confident you are getting a good bond.

As far as centering up goes, I draw concentric circles on one of the mating pieces and use them as a guide. The more you do this, the better you will get at centering. If you make it here to look at the lathe stand, I will be glad to demonstrate this procedure for you. I was never much of a fan of hot melt glue, thinking it was good for sticking flower arrangements and the like together, but this stuff is working out very well for some pretty big pieces.

Bill

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>I should have mentioned....instead of regular wood screws, use pan head self threading screws. Deeper, harder threads, and they're full length. I prefer square drive, if you can find them.

Wally

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Dick Hines

>Will, I don't know how everyone elst does it but here is my system.

I mark the center of the blank and then cut it out. Then I cut a blank that will fit into my chuck. Then I drill a small hole in the center of the small blank where the dividers were . I then stick a small brad through the hole and cover the blank with Tilebond and insert the brad into the hole from the dividers in the bowl plank and tap the brad in. You will always be in the center that way.

After the glue dries put the newley made tenion in the chuck and you are in business.

Just to make sure everything will stay together I will bring the tail stock up until I get the outside of the bowl shaped.

Hope I did confuse you.

Re: Outrigger frustration

adrien

>Wil,

To squeeze the maximum depth from the arrangement (and I agree that the further out you extend the arm, the greater the leverage against the arm), you might dispense with the waste block entirely, using just screws into the bowl blank at the largest diameter the face plate allows.

Leave enought depth in the base so that when reverse turning it, you can cut INSIDE the screw holes, so that they're turned off. (That's Ellsworth's way)

Alternatively, you can drill the screw holes a bit larger and using dowels, fill them with a contrasting wood.(Raffan suggests that way)...

Re: Stay within the limits of your equipment

Duane C.Leach

>Your post sounds like an equipment salesman. But I agree completely. One should never try to exceed the limits set by the mfg. Personal injury or damage to lathe may or probable will result.

Instead of so many posts with suggestions of how to get past the lathe's limitations maybe we should be talking you out of hurting your self.

If you need a bigger bowl. Get a bigger lathe. Most people now think I can't aford another lathe just to turn a larger bowl when I want.But a bigger lathe is a lot cheaper than several weeks off work laid up with a broken hand, arm, or brain case.

Good luck and be safe

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Karl in IA

>The method I use is similar to how Wally and Dick proceed with the exception that I just center my waste block by eye. After the glue has cured, I turn the waste-block into a tennon, complete with shoulder to fit my chuck. It is now self-centered.

Re: Waste Block / Face Plate

Roly

>I cut a number of waste blocks with my band saw, into rounds that will fit into my nova chuck. Before leaving my shop at night, I glue a number of these blocks onto what I intend to turn the next day and when I return, the glue is good and dry and ready to start-a-spinning into some object that will appear as soon as the unwanted wood is removed :-)..........Roly, So Cal guy