WoodCentral Forums

Est. 1998 — 27 years of woodworking knowledge

A Russ Question

Posts

A Russ Question

#1

A Russ Question

Whit Ballantine

>Russ, Joe Herrmann over at Woddturning Design Magazine referred me to you. Last Saturday at our AAW Chapter meeting (NW Michigan Woodturners) there was some discussion about non- or minimally yellowing/darkening finishes. The only two suggestions were:

1. No finish. Beall buff and wax only.

2. Water based eurethane varnish.

I've taken both of these paths and they work, but what I'm looking for is something as simple and "dust forgiving" (my shop is anything but dust free) as say, Watco Danish Oil finish, but is also non- or minimally yellowing/darkening.

I suspect I'm looking for a pie-in-the-sky but any suggestions would be appreciated.

Whit

Re: A Russ Question

#2

Re: A Russ Question

JamieDonaldson

>I'm curious why lacquer like Deft was not mentioned-I've used it on light woods like maple for years with no darkening or yellowing. I have recently been trying Watco Wipe on Poly and results have been so good that I may give up other Danish style oils completely.

Re: A Russ Question

#3

Re: A Russ Question

Russ

>Everything changes color with age. Nothing is permanent. Even polished bare wood is not permanent. Sunlight, UV, and humidity, mold spores, microcrobes, and pollutants in the air will all work to change the color of the bare wood, and deteriorate the polished surface over time.

Having said all of that, I have always been an advocate of "no finish" on Maple. The wood will change color with age, and the grain will naturally become accented. A little Renaissance Wax once a year will protect it from the air around it. The problem comes with selling a bowl and relying on the new owner to keep doing that. I do the best I can to solve that by including a small can of Renaissance and directions for using it with every "natural" Maple bowl.

If you are looking for a more permanent finish on the wood; both the wood will change and the finish color will change. The problem becomes one of giving the wood some protection, imparting a pleasing color, and not doing something that will hasten the color change as the years go by. A waterborne finish does the least to change the wood. A good quality lacquer is a close second. Oil and varnishes vary with their oils and resins.

All finishes will give some color and brightness to the wood. Wet the wood with either water or Mineral Spirits and you will see what happens. This is the best that you can expect. The waterborne finish WILL NOT accent the grain and the appearance will be less than this wetted surface. If the wetted surface is the goal, the objective becomes find a finish that will not change from that over time.

The wetted surface is about what you would get from a lacquer. A nitrocellulose lacquer (Deft) will yellow and become brittle with age. A CAB-Acrylic lacquer is water white in the can, it will stay that way with age, and it is more flexible than Deft. It may just be me, but have never been able to make a sucessful brushing lacquer from a CAB-Acrylic.

A simple way to do it at home is as Jamie described. Coat it with Deft. Wipe all excess off the wood while it is still wet, Buff with 0000- steel wool. Then use an oil finish, and as many coats as needed to get the degree of gloss you want.

If you are using a commercial product, Waterlox would be the better choice for the oil finish because it uses Tung Oil; and Tung doesn't get as dark as fast as other oils.

Linseed oil turns darker faster than Tung, but most commercial finishes are now using Soybean Oil and drying agents, and Soybean gets even darker faster than Linseed.

Re: A Russ Question

#4

Re: A Russ Question

Whit Ballantine

>Jamie and Russ,

Many thanks for your prompt and insightful replies to my question.

Jamie, I had not heard of Watco Wipe On Poly. I've been using Watco's Danish Oil finish as my finish of choice, especially on green turnings. I'll give it a try.

Russ, as always, your answer was detailed and thoughtful. I've been thinking about trying Waterlox. I'll do it now, as well as wiping lacquer. I've also recently been told about Minwax's Wiping Poly. Another finish I'll have to try.

Again, thanks to you both.

Whit

Re: A Russ Question

#5

Existential crisis

David Galloway

>I am stunned, flabbergasted. Is it true, guru of the zen of finishing....nothing is permenant? Then, what is the meaning of life?

I am so screwed.

Re: A Russ Question

#6

Re: Existential crisis

Dinyar Chavda

>Nothing is permanent? Then, what is the meaning of life?

Recycling, if you wnat to be profound about it; obsolescence, if you want to be realistic.

Re: A Russ Question

#7

Re: Existential crisis

Russ

>In the short term, we see no change. In the long term, all wood turns black and all finishes fail. It all come down to the question of, "How long is long?"

Re: A Russ Question

#8

Another option

Russ

>Another option for something that can be put on wood without changing its color from that of the sanded wood is Krylon, "Workable Fixitif". Available in a spray can at art supple stores as a coating to prevent smearing of charcoal and pastels. As such, it makes little to no change in the wood color.

You will have to experiment with what happens when other finishes are put over the top of it. I have not done that, so cannot comment.

👍 This page answered my questions

Your vote helps other woodworkers quickly find the answers and techniques that actually work in the shop.