Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Tom Mullane, Hagerstown, MD

>I predominently use 5 min epoxy for my pen tubes... I can usually get 4 sets of blanks glued before the epoxy gets too thick...

If I have to do just one pen quicky I will use thick CA.. it takes just about as long as the epoxy if you are not using accelerator and almost instantly if you are..

I have found the epoxy gives me a much better bond than either of the others...

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Terry Quiram

>Phil

I have never glued myself to something using CA until I started to turn pens and I glued 3 fingers to a Corian blank. Took me 45 minutes to get loose. My wife still chuckles about that one. Now I use Poly. I always have about 30 glued up and ready to turn.

Terry

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

DWFII

>In my opinion, CA is not the way to go. I've had blanks blow apart using CA. Now you may say that's poor technique but I'm not the only one. I've used poly and if you are willing to wait overnight, it might be the best answer of all. But recently I've been using 5 minute epoxy with good sucess.

DWFII

Epoxy too !

Fred in NC

>

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Stuart Johnson

>I use poly. At first I thought it was a mess to clean out the barrel but I now plug the ends with a bit of bee's wax. Here are my steps:

1. Plug the tube ends.

2. Squirt a few drops of poly in each end of the blank.

3. Spread it around with a skewer.

4. Insert the tube. I stand them on end and have not had the problem some have with the tube being forced out.

5. Let dry 3 or 4 hours and then cut off the foam.

6. Use a 1/4 inch bolt to remove the bee's wax. I save the little bits to melt down the next time I need a thin sheet.

7. Trim the ends and let sit over night.

When turning I will need to wipe the mandrel off with alchole every couple pens to remove and wax that might build up.

I've only turned a couple hundred pens but this is the way I do it. I didn't like the mess with CA

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

RonZ

>Perhaps I'm a loner here but I use CA.

I do production works so I don't have time to wait for poly.

I use the thick CA and have never had a blowout due to the wood nor have my fingers been glued up. It usually takes a few minutes to dry but if I'm in a hurry, I'll spray accelerator on each end. I put the CA on the bottom 2/3s of the tube [after it has been sanded] in a spiral. I then insert it into the opposite end of the marked centers up to where the glue stops and twist. I then insert it into the marked center end and push it in until it's flush with another piece of wood. I usually have ready to turn pens on hand so I turn a pen and then go back to the ones I just glued and use the barrel trimmer on them as they are already dry by then.

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Guest

>Same here. I use CA and very much the same procedure.

I used to production turn pens/pencils/trinkets for a couple of years and stopped counting at around 4,000. Now, I just make a few dozen a month for the higher-end clients. CA glue was far and away the best compromise for my purposes on those projects. The other adhesives are fine but not in my circumstance.

Re: Pen turning-Glue CA or Poly

Eaglesc

>RonZ you are not alone.

I use CA normally mediaum,but i also turn pens out of Corn Cob and then use thick.

From sanding the tubes on the sander glueing them in and milling the ends 5 minutes. to turning at the most.

I use accelerant mostly so I can set the first blank down to glue up the second.I'll spray teh second so I can mill teh first.

Wait for glue to dry to turn a pen?

Waddareyou Nuts?

5 min epoxy-not CA

Bill Howatt

>

20 min. epoxy for production runs

Joe Pack

>I use 2 part 5 minute epoxy when I am doing just a couple of pens, but use the 20 minute variety when I am doing production runs.

Save a bunch of $$$ and buy the 2-tube dispensers at Big Lots or such. They charge about half what the hardware or woodworking stores charge.

***My problems with gluing***

Phil Winn

>The problem that I am having with CA is that

when I am turning the blanks, the CA bond breaks.

I use a "new" correctly sized drill bit, I blow

out the blank with compressed dry clean air, I roughen up the brass with 180 sand paper, clean the brass, then apply the CA-I have tried both

thin and medium CA--covering the entire tube and

within a few seconds insert the tube into the hole quickly twisting it. Then I let it sit...I have tried letting them sit for 5 min, 10 min, 30 min, and even a few hours. I then use the correct sized pen mill...then insert the bushings, put onto the mandrel and snug them down with the nut...then push the live center against the rod gently. Then I start turning...it takes me a while to turn a complete

pen-both top and bottom, about 15 to 20 minutes.

Then I start sanding, 150, 180, 220, 280, 320, 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, 2000....

When I touch the blanks, they often are very hot.

At various points the "BOND" breaks. Why?

1. Why do they get so hot-should they?

2. when turning and the lathe spinning, when I touch the bushings with a piece of metal, there is no wobble....BUT when I touch the wood (after it has been sanded to 500+) there is some vibration---why? Should there?

3. What causes the high pitched noise when turning?

4. How long does it take to turn a simple pen

like a Junior Gentlemen-smooth tapered and

sand it to 2000 or so? (trying to do a good job)?

5. For a super shiney finish, hopefully easy to apply, what do you recommend?

Thanks,

Phil

Re: ***My problems with gluing***

Eaglesc

>I would use tin CA to bond tubes medium at least and at times thick,

You say you "rough up" the tubes with 180 grit.

I HATE scuffng the tubes!

I saw a post where someone put the tubes on a long screw driver and ran the over the top spindle of a bench sander.I tried that meathod.after one "trip" I reverse them and go again.

(wear eye protection)

I normally have 100 grit belts on the sander so that's what I use.

Is it possible your tubes don't have anything for the glue to adhere to.

Yep blanks get hot. theres a little sfriction invloved with sanding.I wet sant sometimes and the blanks stay cooler.

I've learned penturning by the seat of the pants internet,conversations at WC,forums but mostly trial and error.

Re: ***My problems with gluing***

Russ

>I wish there were a simple answer to all of your questions, but there isn't. Some people have problems with CA glue, others don't, even though they may be doing the same thing. Many pencrafters will advocate using Polyurethane glue or an Epoxy because they can't get CA glue to work for them.

The CA itself may be the problem. All CA glues are not equal; some are better than others. Using the "thin" type may be your problem because it cures in a few seconds, and you may be breaking the bond before it is formed. You should be using Medium or Fast, rather than the Thin or Medium. The longer the working time, and the slower the cure, the better the bond. 5-10 minutes wait should be sufficient waiting time for even the slowest of the CA glues.

You didn't mention the species of wood that you are using. That can be a problem. CA glue works best on a open grain porous wood. CA does not bond very well with an oily wood like Cocobolo, and an Epoxy would be the better choice.

If you had a problem with the wood cracking, a Polyurethane glue would be the better choice. CA is a hard brittle glue, while the Poly remains slightly resilient when it is dry, and that allows for some wood movement.

The CA glue needs something to bond to when gluing wood to metal. The brass tubes can have a light coating of oil from when it was made; and sometimes the brass will develop an oxide tarnish from age and exposure to the air. These are more of a problem with some kits than others, and the reason that some folks will tell you they do nothing to the tubes while others will insist that they require sanding. I prefer to not take the chance, and sand all tubes.

Sand the tubes until the surface is bright and 100% covered with sanding scratches. Then do nothing. The brass will be the cleanest you can get it after a thorough sanding. Anything you do after that will leave a deposit on the surface that may interfere with the glue. Avoid gripping them anywhere but the ends when handling them because oil from your hands can cause problems. You said that you were cleaning the tubes after sanding them. You are using something to clean them?? That "something" could be the problem.

For the rest of your questions, my answers are listed with the numbers as they were asked.

1.

Wood gets hot when it is cut, whether with a tool or sandpaper, from the friction. When sanding at high speeds the grit is doing a lot of skating across the surface (generating heat). At a slower speed there is less skating and more cutting by the abrasive.

The wood should get hot if you are finishing with a friction polish. The hotter it gets, the better the finish.

Since everything gets hot together, there should be no problem with the glue joints failing.

2.

I have no idea why you are getting vibration on the wood when the bushings are running true.

3.

A high pitched noise sounds like your mandrel is spinning on the tail center. Does your tail-center spin freely when you spin the tip with your finger. If not you should soak it in kerosene overnight to free up the bearings. If that doesn't work, you need a new center. If the center spins freely, you should be applying more pressure on the end of the mandrel. The tail-center needs to be "right tight", but not too tight. Too tight can bow the mandrel.

4.

You are asking how long it should take to make a pen. Have you been reading the ads or forum messages that tell you that a SlimLine pen can be turned in 2-minutes?? The truth is that they may be shading the truth by referring to the actual "turning", leaving out the preparation, sanding, finishing, and assembly operations; or they have never turned a pen; or their pen looks like something that was made in 2-minutes.

Unless you have made a lot of pens, your 15 to 20 minutes sounds pretty fast to me.

5.

Super gloss, easy to apply, and durable are not mutually inclusive properties in a finish. There is nothing faster than using a wax like PPP, and it is shiny; but it but it isn't durable at all. You could use a shellac based friction polish, but surface preparation is important, it isn't as fast and easy to apply with good results; but it is more durable than a wax. CA glue is a very durable finish, but it takes even longer to apply, the techniques of application will take some practice. There are other finishes that are a very durable high gloss- lacquer, polyurethanes, waterborne lacquers; but none of them are quick and none are easy.

Re: ***My problems with gluing***

Bill Hale / The Wood Spinner

>Remember that CA melts at about 185 D.F.. If you get over that hot it will debond. When sanding turn down the speed and possibly use some air to keep it cool. The finer the grit the more heat.

Good turning and be safe

Bill

You aren't alone

Marc Phillips

>I use thick CA, and have never had a blow out....

Works for me! :)

Marc�s Site



Marc Phillips

Warner Robins GA