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skews

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skews

#1

skews

John Lucas

>I just read the article by Nick Cook and Alan Lacer in the Journal and would like to continue the discussion here to get other opinions. Great article.

I use mostly an oval skew. I like the way it rolls beads because the pivot point stays near the center. I agree with Alan that it can be hard to sharpen because it wants to roll on the sharpening tables. I use the Oneway system to establish my grind and this uses the handle to control the cut so it doesn't matter whether it's oval or flat it's still up to the user to establish the initial grind.

I don't own a 3/8 thick skew and would like opinions on Alans thoughts that the skew vibrates less. I do own a really big skew, almost 1/2" thick and 2 1/2" wide. It doesn't vibrate but I haven't tried it on a long thin spindle to see if it chatters less. I think the wood vibrates more than the skew on that type of turning but I haven't actually done a side by side comparison.

Alan mentioned that the oval skews are flimsy and can be flexed in your hand. I don't believe mine fits in that category. It's quite stiff. probably not as stiff as a 3/8" skew but seems quite adequate to me.

He also says it's unstable with the toe down. I do a huge amount of turning with the toe down and don't find it unstable at all.

I don't have any problems with the flat skew. At least not one with the bottom rounded. To me they perform about the same with the exception of planing cuts. It does require more concentration with the oval skew but not impossible. I do it all the time. I did have problems with the flat skew with square bottom on the heel side. The pivot piont moves as you roll a bead and takes a lot more concentration. The oval skew or flat skew with rounded bottom works much better for beads.

Just wanted to get some opinions from other skew users. I'm always willing to learn.

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#2

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Mike Schwing from Maryland

>John, any chance you're coming to the 5 Barns shindig? If so, I have two things, one a request.

1. Would you please give me a skew lesson? The mere word still makes me tremble but I'm pretty sure I have the skills for learning how to use one, and the detail work I'm doing pretty much requires it.

2. Are you bringing your bike? I will if others are there to ride.

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#3

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John Lucas

>Mike

I can't get to that but sure would love to come. It sounds like a gas. I've hearg Bill is pretty good with a skew. I'll bet there are a few more people there. You can probably get an impromptu skew group going. We did that at Don Russels annual picnic in Georgia.

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#4

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Chuck Ludwigsen

>Wish I could go too. But I think Bill will be doing some work with Skewers (aka Shishkabob) as well.

John, Hope to see you in August at the TAW symposium.

Chuck in Memphis, TN.

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#5

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John Lucas

>Chuck

I'm trying to find out if I can attend the TAW symposium. It often coincides with Football media day. I'm not allowed to take off that day so I have phone calls out to the coach and SID to see if I can get them to decide on a day. Hope i can go. I really want to meet Andi and really like John J. and Clay Foster and look forward to seeing them.

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#6

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Russ Fairfield

>The skew is a good example of our learning to use the tool that we have, and then standing around arguing that what we use is better than anything else. Here is another opinion.

I prefer a flat bevel and a straight edge on a skew, and I sharpen it with sandpaper on a piece of particleboard and give it a final honing with Ajax Cleanser on a piece of leather. The skew is easier to use the sharper it is, razor sharp is good, and I keep it that way with an occasional couple strokes on the leather during use.

My reasons for the flat bevel is that it is the better profile for making planing type cuts on flat or slightly curved surfaces (a rolling pin cut). When making beads and similar rolled shapes, the tool is riding on that part of the bevel immediately behind the cutting edge, and the wood has no idea, nor does it care, how the bevel was ground.

I prefer the oval skew because the long radius oval gives a better support and is less sensitive to rotation of the tool for making planing type cuts, and I can't tell any difference for turning beads. The thinner oval blade and longer bevel can sometimes make it easier to see into the cut.

There may be some argument for using a thicker tool for working at long distances from the tool rest. When I have a problem (rarely) with the oval tool being too flexible, I just use a larger skew. For some reason, I find it easier to use a larger oval skew on a smaller spindle than with a rectangular skew chisel.

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#7

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Lyn J. Mangiameli

>I like this post, as it brings up the perenial issue of what does it mean when an individuals experience differs from the technique and choices of the "experts."

One of the things I try to do in every review I write is to not only give my experience/appraisal of the tool, but give enough objective information about the tool that others can begin to assess it for themselves. You have just done that in your post, even though it was presented as a question.

I'm very impressed with Alan's video, and his obvious skills. I imagine he does quite well with almost any skew put in his hands, but it is also clear that he has refined not only his techniques, but his entire (forgive me) sensory/motor system for the characteristics of the skews he prefers. Like an automobile fine tuned for a specific altitude/air temperature/gasoline, he performs best when the conditions are most closely replicated. So for all who comment on tools, one has to be careful to differentiate between the inherent characteristics of the tool, vs the interaction of that tool with ones idiosynctratic techniques and projects. You have done a good job of describing how the oval skew matches well with you.

When one looks at the "experts" one quickly finds there are two general approaches to their discussion of tools and/or technique. There are those, Mike Darlow is a good example, who through thoughtful analysis, have come to believe there is a best way to do things, and the turners will benefit from moving beyond their idiosyncracies to aligning their technique with the optimal physical principles. There are others, and I think Del Stubbs was a nice example of this who just encourage turners to experiment to find what feels the best for them.

As I see it, Alan tends to fall a bit more in the first group, perhaps because he must condense down a lot of experience to simple principles that his students can grasp. Yet on the other side, are folks like Dell who would pull out a hachet head and turn a small fine goblet. I bet he could have done the same with a sharpened table knife. Raffan comes to mind in the same way, and look at how his typical tool choice differs from Alan's.

Russ has commented along these same lines before, talking about how one develops a system of techniques and tools that are effective, but that does not preclude another from developing a different system of techniques and tools that are effective. Indeed, what is so often the case is that folks can't duplicate their level of success outside the same system. It has come up before how Joe Fleming and I both have a fondness for cutting hollowing tools that are very close in general principle of operation and in manufacture. I have great success with the Proformes, Joe with the Exocet, yet neither of us can achieve the same level of performance with the opposite tool. I think both of us agree that from an engineering perspective, neither tool overall is inherently superior, but rather it is our idiosyncratic interaction with the tool that leads to our different experiences, and even results in our failure to modify our technique to pick up the technique best suited for the other tool. These sorts of things get played out in so many different areas of turner/tool interaction, such as was recently discussed with respect to flute shape of bowl gouges.

So I'm sorry if you were looking for some very specific comments on the thick wide skews, as I have surely strayed from that. I will comment quickly on that specific point that I have been using a P&N skew that closely matches a lot of Alan's criteria (and was designed and offered that way long before Alan promoted such a design), and I like it a lot. I have over a half dozen differnent skews, about half of them with radiused grinds, most of them Glaser, and have never found any that clearly stood out as my favorite, though I appreciated the Glasers for their edge retention. Since obtaining the thick, wide, P&N, I do find myself gravitating more to it. At this point I can't say for sure if that is because it is just new and interesting or if it really serves me better.

Anyway, I'll stop know as I'm afraid the length of this has already become tedious to read

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#8

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Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Mike

There will be lots of turning going on at the picnic, and we can probably squeeze a skew or two in. To echo what Lyn says, if it is working for you, don't worry too much about what other people say you should be doing. If it isn't working, then that is a different story.

I showed a friend of mine all I know about skews. He bought one just like mine, but had all sorts of trouble with it. He asked me for a refresher course, which I gladly obliged. We came to find out through a very frustrating evening for both of us that there was something not quite right about his skew! It was a Sorby 3/4" oval, just like mine. Both of us could get cuts nice and smooth with my tool, but neither of us could keep his from chattering. Both tools were sharpened identically. I finally put a caliper on both tools and discovered a thickness difference of about 0.011". All I can think of was that put the bad one "over the edge". Of course, it might have been a bad lot of steel as well, but I do not know enough about those things to make a judgement. All I know is one tool worked and one didn't, for both of us.

Bill

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#9

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Ron in Drums PA

>I don't know if this is the best way of doing things.

The only way I can sharpen a skew to my liking is I use a 6" face plate mounted on a lathe, slap on PSA 120-150 grit sand paper (whichever grit I have around at the time). I use the tool rest and go from there.

I have another face plate with some (dry) MDO mounted and I use this to hone the surface.

Seems to work okay.

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#10

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John Lucas

>Bill

According to Nick Cook there are a certain number of catches in each skew and they have to be used up before it will behave. This was obviously apparent in your skews.

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#11

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John Lucas

>thanks Lynn and Russ. You guys always bring some interesting and useful information to the table.

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#12

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Russ Fairfield

>Catches?? With a skew chisel?? Nah. Maybe a few spiral cuts. But no catches.

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#13

a brief demo by you

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Bill,

Remember when you stopped by my house to drop off my forgotten cooler (2002 BBQ) and gave me a quick tutorial in the fine art of "skewing"? :>)

Well, ever since then, I've been making a go of it. I've finally gotten to the point where I can actually pick up the skew without flinching. Seriously, I really do enjoy using the skew now. I can get such a smooth surface it's amazing. But I still feel that I'm only scratching the surface (pardon the pun) with it's capabilities.

The demo your proposing at the BBQ seems like a great idea. Then we'd all have to say, "Thank Skew!"

I know, I know. Col George usually hits you with the puns. But I'm loopy from a long day at work. :>)

See ya later,

Dominic

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#14

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Bill Turpin in WNC mountains

>At the May meeting of the Carolina Mountain Woodturners, Chris Stott turned a lidded box with ONLY a skew. He used the skew for his roughing gouge. If I had tried that I would have had a catch in about ten milliseconds. He then proceeded to turn another box with only his roughing gouge. This proves that the skill of the turner is as important as what tool you choose to use.

Bill in WNC mountains

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#15

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John F.

>must say I loved your message.

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#16

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Bob Persing

>I think there is significant wisdom in the Nick Cook comment. After you have used up the number of catches (or spirals) inherent in the particular skew, you should be well "practised" ;)

Still working on my quota,

BobP

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#17

Thanks, Russ. Never tedious, Lyn.

David Chung

>

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