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Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

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Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#1

Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

Wolf Kiessling

>I bought some "pure" tung oil from woodcraft and found that the finish I get is extremely dull and lifeless. I thought that pure tung oil would have a little luster. As an experiment, I applied one coat of natural danish oil to the inside of the bowl and got exactly the look I was looking for.

I have used tung oil before and gotten an increasingly glossy surface by the application of additional coats of tung oil. In retrospect, however, I'm not sure that was "pure" tung oil. It may have been one of the "tung oil finishes" that contains little or no tung oil. It was so long ago that I can't remember.

Now to the question. Is there something wrong with the woodcraft product, am I possible doing something wrong (so far, I have applied about eight coats of the tung oil), am I mistaken in the belief that I can get some luster out of tung oil?

I would like to have some info prior to finishing this project. I am reserving the application of danish oil to the outside of the bowl as an act of last resort.

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#2

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

Wolf, there is actually an oil called Tung oil, but it's properties as a finishing product are very limited. About it's only plus is the fact that, when it does decide to dry, it dries relatively clear and dull. giving a "Close to the Wood" appearance. It does not yellow as much as many of the other drying oils that are used in making finishes. And so it gained a reputation of being a good finishing oil. This was before the days we discovered many of the newer oils used in finishing today.

There is not such an oil as Danish oil. (no matter how hard we squeeze em, the Danes don't leak oil:) This is a term used to describe any number of different oil/varnish/thinner mixes, and gets it's name by way of Danish cabinet builders. The term Tung oil has been usurped by many manufacturers in the past to be use coincidentally with Danish oil.

So, about the only reason that pure tung oil has survived as a finishing product, is because the craft market requires nifty products.

It is good to know what pure tung oil is capable of, for those times that you need that "close to the wood" appearance. (I think you just found out) But in those cases that you want that film look with a bit of a sheen, you need one of the Danish oils that has some resin (varnish) included in the mix.

I can already hear some folks saying "but I get my tung oil to have a nice sheen" Well that my be so. You see it is possible to get the light to bounce off of any surface if you polish or burnish it smooth enough.

So, what's it to be? Danish oil? or buff that surface so smooth that even chalk will shine on it:)

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#3

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

Lyn J. Mangiameli

>The shine of any finish will depend principally on one thing: how coherently the light is reflected from the finish(s). The opposite of this is that light is scattered off in different directions. For (fairly) clear wood finishes, the amount of scatter is going to be determined by three things: The smoothness of the underlying wood surface, the clarity of the finish itself (i.e., does it contain particle inclusions--which are sometimes added deliberately to achieve "low gloss" finishes), and the smoothness of the external surface.

Thus a woodworker can control shine or gloss by:

1. Choosing how finely they will sand the raw wood

2. Choosing a finish that has or doesn't have particle light dispersants

3. Controling how evenly the finish is applied and choosing a finish for its surface characterists when dry.

4. Choosing how finely they will sand or buff the final finish. ("Rubbing out", is more than leveling a finishes surface, but is the way flat woodworkers select the amount and uniformity of light dispersal by the depth and uniformity of the final scratches left on the surface).

Sometimes one factor will predominate, such as having particle dispersants in the finish will dominate over how finely the wood surface is sanded, but generally all factors do not have to be optimal to still achieve a shiny finish.

Bringing this to the original question Tung oil is a drying finish that shrinks slightly as it dries. This shrinkage causes micro ripples in its surface, that lend themselves to a more "tactile" feel and greater light dispersal. In some circumstancs this is desirable. When it isn't, sanding or buffing (which basically both come down to controlled abrasion) will level the ripples and increase the shine. Buffing with wax will also allow the wax to fill in the areas between the micro-ripples and achieve a smoother outer finish which again will contribute to more coherent light reflection.

Polymerized tung oils shrink less (as do products that contain lesser amounts of tung oil because other finish components, such as resins, are mixed in) than pure tung oil, thus having lower amplitude ripples from drying. I almost always prefer Polymerized Tung Oil (I use the Lee Valley products) to pure tung oil, but sometimes the latter is preferable specifically because it has the softer (both light and tactile) characteristics that result from the micro-ripples.

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#4

Ellis Walentine

One other thing

Ellis Walentine

>... and that is the thickness of the finish.

Pure tung oil doesn't build up like a tung oil varnish does. Even Danish oil (quote-unquote), which has a little varnish mixed in with the oil (and a lot of thinner) doesn't build very quickly. If you want enough film thickness to rub out to a luster or a gloss, I'd recommend using a tung oil varnish like Waterlox (gloss) or General Seal-a-Cel.

Ellis

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#5

Wow - print and save!

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

You are in great form today Lyn. I couldn't have put it as succinctly. Print and save!

Regards Sam Simpson.

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#6

Okay then,

Wolf Kiessling

>If I understand everything that has been stated, the dull look which is still on the outside of the bowl will not improve by the application of more tung oil or rubbing. (I have rubbed the existing eight or so coats until blue in the face) Since I got the desired look by applying the coat of Watco danish oil over the tung oil (on the inside of the bowl) I will just apply a coat, probably two (including one more on the inside of the bowl), to the outside. The single applied coat on the inside is a little spotty so one more application should do it. This ought to give me a nice, satiny luster.

I guess I will keep the tung oil that I have left and use it when I want protection for a bowl but retain an absolutely natural look. It actually does pop the grain but once the tung oil is dry I find it impossible to tell that the piece has an oil finish.

Re: Finishing question, mainly re tung oil

#7

Re: One more other thing

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>I will add McCloskey Tung finishes to the recommended list. Whether "sealer", "finish", or "varnish" they do very well and are less likely, IMHO&E, to chip or suffer "film failure" than other oil finishes I have used. While all oil finishes will "pull down" (shrink) onto the substrate during the outgassing and polymerization of the cure period, the McCloskey Tung products seem to remain more elastic. That flexibility allows the wood to expand and contract without splitting the finish, which I deem especially important for turned wood items.

That, of course, is just my opinion and experience. Your results may vary.

Mark Mandell

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