Golden Rule Question

Re: Golden Rule Question

Sam Simpson

>Hi Y'all,

George, it is my understanding that the so called golden rules where an attempt to explain the correct proportions of objects as related to man, and in that regard, as specifically relates to our own proportions in conjunction with manmade objects, they help us feel comfortable in and around buildings and assist in scaling objects so that they carry a pleasing esthetic. From the very begging it was acknowledged that exceptions would have to occur. 'e.g.' A column would need to be shaped in such a way as to have a stability in it's proportion and not give the effect of falling on passersby. Likewise a sculptured figure which is positioned above the height of normal line of sight, would need to have its features adjusted so as not to appear foreshortened or squat in it's form.

It is therefore also desired to carry these exceptions to include objects that we approach in a close-up manner. Things that we hold and touch can be adjusted in their proportion to have good esthetic when viewed from a vantage bellow normal line of sight, or in conjunction with other objects. 'e.g.' A vessel placed on a cabinet might change the overall effects of proportion within the scene, and will often appear to be properly placed in one location but not in another.

Although these golden rules are literally set in stone, they are as flexible as putty.

Regards Sam Simpson.

Thanks, Sam, for an excellent explanation

Russ Fairfield

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Re: Golden Rule Question

Richard Allen

>If you consider both positive and negative space then the golden rule could apply to a 14" x 4" bowl.

The attached drawing shows how the golden rule can be applied to positive and negative space.

Please note that there are many other shapes which do not conform to the golden rule which are pleasing to see and hold.

As Sam said the perception of the object can have an impact on an object as well. A bowl placed on a shelf where the negative space in interupted would look out of proportion yet when that same bowl had no interfeince with it's negative space it would look well proportioned.

While you can apply the golden rule to design I find applying the golden rule to existing object helpful in understanding the impact an object can have. At least that's my thought today. Tomorrow I am likely to have some different understanding.

Thanks

Richard

Re: Golden Rule Question

George Van

>Thanks Sam and Richard, I really didn�t want to take my tape measure out after each cut.

Great examples! What you said makes sense, both for the flexibility, sometimes necessary, and also considering the negative space.

George

Re: Golden Rule Question

Earl

>And if you really want to get confused, read the latest Discover magazine article on it. To quote the conclusion: "The literature on the golden ratio is full of claims that have little or no basis in fact and in some cases are know to be false." The author claims that no scientific or behavioral study shows that proportion to be any more pleasing than any other. He says it was a mathematical formula applied to mathamatices not architecture or form; that all the info about the Greek's use of it is apocraphal and that it was not called "golden" until 1835 and again, that was by a mathematician.

Take it for what it is worth.

I thought the Greek architects were fascinated by

Al Crandall

>I thought the Greek architects were fascinated by the square root of 5. All over the Parthenon are examples of the sq.rt. of 5 ratios: width to height of the building, spacing of the columns, distance of one building from another, etc.

Re: Applied Geometry

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Pat Hagorus, the Master Builder.

The sq/rt of 5 (2.23606.......)was, of course, the length of the long side of Ol' Pat's Big Idea (the 3/4/5 rt. triangle) that was needed by the carpenters and masons to get and keep buildings of real size square. When you're using that method to get all your corners at the desired 90*, you're going to be finding a lot of measurements that are the result of the process. Might be nice to apply mathematical proofs to metaphysical qualities "found" in the results, but I'm not sure the logic is sound in all aspects.

Doesn't it all come down to a matter of personal taste and preception anyway?

Let us not forget that the free expression in both form and content that artists enjoy and covet today is, in part, the result of the huge rebellion against and rejection of the "Academee" formulas, prescriptions and proscriptions that ruled the roost for so long.

Mark

-2=mail

Speaking of "Perception".......

Russ Fairfield

>It was recently discovered that the same ratio applies to to our field of vision. This same 1.618 is the ratio between the width and height of our field of normal vision without the parallax and distortion at the peripheral.

Could it be that we find measurements to be pleasing to our eye because they "fit".

Very astute observation Russ!

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

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I hope I can remember this one!

TDaniel

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Re: Speaking of "Perception".......

Earl

>The same article I was refering to in Discover points out these types of "discoveries" (the eye, for instance). If we take 500 measurements of the body, some are bound to fit the Golden mean. Others are bound to fit the sq. root of 5. Still others probably fit some astrological signs. Others fit nothing. Point is we can always find measurements to fit any theory if we look hard enough.

The whole point is that we all want turned objects that please the eye. There are certainly some artistic guides that help us in our design. But ultimately it is in the eye of the beholder and thats what makes this whole endeavor fun and exciting!

Earl

Re: Speaking of "Perception".......

Mark Mandell - Gone Round In Jersey

>Russ,

Could you e-mail me the source you drew the vision info from? Remember to drop the "2".

Thanks

Mark

Re: Golden Rule Question

John Trant (aka Boxes-n-Bowls)

>For my little mind, I am more comfortable with the Golden Rule stated as the Rule of Thirds. In other words, the base should be about a third of the diameter, the height (4 inches, in this case) should be about a third of the diameter (14"), the greatest diameter should be a third up (or down) the heigth of a vase, etc.

John

Golden Rule or Golden Mean

Stuart Johnson

>I was brought up with the Golden Rule as a guide to living life. The golden mean on the other hand is the visual ratio based on Fabonacci numbers.

Just a small nit to pick.