>I've only turned a few pieces of Osage Orange and Box Elder. One of my friends who is a professional woodworker says he won't work with either one because the customer buys these woods for their color and he doesn't want them to be disappointed when the color changes.
I know Binh Pho air brushes the red in his box elder because the air brush color won't fade.
My question is how soon does it fade. I know Osage orange gradually changes to a yellowish brown over about 3 years.
the reason I'm asking is I have access to a box elder log and would like to turn it but I don't want to sell it and have a customer come back unhappy.
I understand your concern, I didn't want the customer coming back either so I turned a few bowls and kept them in my shop. They were not in the window or direct sunlight and in about 7 months they started to fade. By 9 months there wasn't much red to see.
I've been told it depends on the tree, the finish and the location where the finished item is kept.
I don't know if this is of any help to you. It didn't help me a bit! I'm not turning the rest of the tree until someone can tell me how to keep the color for more than a year.
>My experience with Box Elder is that, yes, the red color will disappear over time. How long this will take will depend on how dark the red color is to start with. All is not lost. You can use a finish that will slow the fading of the red accent. Or, you can stain, dye, or paint the wood; you can tone the red color into the finish; or you can add the red accent when it doesn't exist naturally.
Your first decision must be how the turned wood will be used. The preservation of the red accent requires a finish that may not be compatible with using the bowl for salad and food service. If this is going to be a useable bowl for salad service, finish it as you would any similar bowl from another wood, and sit back and watch it change color. For this reason, I would recommend not using Box Elder for a salad bowl type woodturning. The color may attract attention and make for a faster sale, but you will have to warn the buyer that it will disappear. It you keep it over until next year, it won't make any difference.
The visibility of the red accent against the white wood is what makes the beauty of Box Elder. We need to preserve (or enhance) this color contrast when we finish the wood. There are three (3) things that are working to remove the color and the contrast - the fading of the red itself, darkening of the wood, and yellowing of the finish. All will have the same effect of the red accent disappearing.
We can't stop the red from fading, but we can slow it down; and we do have some control over the color change of the wood and finish. Removing the effects of the wood and finish darkening with age will entend the life of the red accents from months to years. Adding some color to the wood will make it last longer yet.
Oils and varnish finishes that tend to darken the wood and yellow with age will accelerate the fading of the red accents. As everything gets darker, the red disappears. These would include all finishes with Linseed, Soybean Oil, and all polyurethane finishes. A Tung Oil finish such as Waterlox will better preserve both the color of the wood and the red accents. Lacquer or shellac will maintain the light natural color of the wood and the red accents better than any other finish.
A high gloss finish will preserve the colors better than a dull matte finish. I suspect that the reflection from the gloss surface contributes to this because I have observed that a high gloss surface will maintain the wood color over time. A gloss finish from Waterlox is almost the equal of the gloss lacquer or shellac.
For coloring of the wood, I have had good luck with rubbing red line chalk powder into the wood over the red color areas. It enhances the natural color at the beginning, there will always be the red chalk when the natural color has faded, and it is easier to do than air brushing.
Working all of these things in the same direction, I rub red chalk into the wood, and then seal it with a couple spray coats of lacquer or shellac. The spray prevents the chalk powder from smearing into the white areas of the wood. Once the surface is sealed, Waterlox could be used. However, I continue with either the lacquer or shellac to a high gloss finish. I have no personal preferrence for either. If I want a softer gloss, I hand-buff the surface with Pumice and water to remove some of the surface gloss.
I have also used natural yellow and red dyes as toners in shellac to apply the color.
This is probably more than you really wanted to know.
>John, ordinarily the pigments created by spalting are very indelible. In fact they are hard to bleach out even when you want to get rid of them. However, the coral pink in box elder appears to be a unique case.
Some researchers (I think up at the University of Minnesota) have come to the conclusion that the coral "spalt" in box elder doesn't come from pigments derived by the metabolism of fungi, but rather from extractives in the wood that are triggered as a response to the fungi infection.
The fact that these coral pink pigments do seem to be fugitive would tend to verify their findings in that natural wood pigments (meaning those caused by the polymerization of wood extractives, as opposed to the metabolism of fungi) such as the purple highlights in air dried walnut, purpleheart, sickingia and a few other woods are also fugitive and tend to fade toward amber-brown. Oxidation may play a role, but the fading seems to be primarily a function of exposure to light.
You will probably be able to extend the life of the coral color in box elder by using a UV blocking varnish...but in the long run, it's a battle you will inevitably lose. I think your best marketing strategy is to tell the customer that the wood's natural patina forming process will cause the color to change...and let the customer make an informed decision as to whether their willing to live with this natural process.
>My observations on boxelder, while limited in time frame is this. THe stumps or logs that are fresh cut will lose their color in a day or two. I have a couple of bowls that have a medium amount of red color in them that are a year old and do not seem to have faded at all. They are in plain view in my bedroom but out of the direct sun light. They have been finished with Russ's brew that is mentioned in his "Corner" that is 1/3 tung oil, 1/3 turpentine, and 1/3 gloss marine spar varnish. I have one bowl that is two years old and finished with just danish oil and it seems to have lost a little of its color but it is in a placed in my house where it is exposed to brighter light and some of it is direct sunlight. It has not faded as fast as expected. I have left it in a position where it is in more direct light just to experiment and see how fast the color would fade.
I have sold a few boxelder bowls and I always warn people that the color will fade out eventually but it does not deter them. Once they see the red color they go for it in a big way.
I could certainly see how the color and speed of fading could vary from tree to tree.
>Thanks for all the responses so far. Keep them coming this is interesting. Obviously I plan to turn the wood anyway if for no reason than to get a good photo of the piece. What would be interesting as the years go by is to take a photo of before and after. Then you could show the client. It would be interesting to see if sales of the pieces change.