>I am new to turning bowls with end grain, no problem with burls vessels spindles. I have read books read the forms did google.I just can't get the hang of it. The wood I am having trouble with are green and dry mable, walnut, and some really nice poplar. Cherry cuts great.I have glued it, tryed evey tool and some homemade tools. The One tool that is suppossed to be good with end grain is the finger nail grind. I get the supper fine curly cuts but still the very ugly end grain. I sand and sand but the finish still looks crappy on the end grain. Turning on a new jet 1642, but the few bowls I did on my 20" by 102" 1903 no name seemed to give better cuts with same tools.
I am thinking of setting it back up and testing once I get the cement floor in my shop done.
Any comment would be nice and you could e-mail me if you like, about to ready to have a bon-fire with bowl blanks. Thanks in advance John
>John, sounds to me like you're cutting against the grain. Whenever possible cut "downhill". Since you say that you aren't having problems with face grain, I'm assuming that you're riding the bevel with the gouge. On the outside of an endgrain piece, cut from large diameter to small. That's cutting with the grain. Before sanding, you can clean up any end grain tearout by shear scraping. If you don't know what shear scraping is, let us know.
>When turning end grain vessels that might start as a whole log or a rounded out blank in spindle orientation - do you turn them as a normal bowl blank - that is - by mounting the blank so you can shape the bottom and outside, forming a tenon or similar form so you can then turn it around and work on the inside?
Or do you mount the blank between centers true it up, form your tenon or glue block mount, then mount it and do all of the work, inside and out, in one mounting so the vessel opening faces away from the headstock?
I'd probably be starting out using the compressable tenon mounting method. I believe that you use glue blocks. I saw that picture of all of your roughs. My comfort level with them is not all that high yet.
I've got a lot of whole cherry logs and now I have something to work on them with.
>John, NC is very well represented by the AAW. Seek out a club, and ask for help. The books are nice, but hands-on instruction will put you farther ahead faster. End grain turning doesn't have to be that much more frustrating.
If you're near Hickory (our club) or Davidson (where I live) look me up personally. If you need help finding a club, just post where you live.
I live in Columbus NC close to Hendersonville or Forest city. I have tried scraping and it helps, but only if I have light tare out which is not to often on maple, and walnut, water helps on poplar some. I don�t have problems with Osage orange, cherry or burls. I have some great blanks to share if some in Hickory or Hendersonville would like to take some time to show me in their shop or mine.
I turn between centers cut the foot and then mount on a Vic 120 chuck. I try to do 95% of outside between centers that seems to help some.
I don�t know how to say what the grain orientation is, but if the blank is in the chuck and you look at the face the grain lines are vertical or horizontal. Not the end as with spindle turnings.
I am not new to turning just bowl turning in straight-grained woods. I have little$$ but lots of wood to trade for help. The ambrosia (sp) maple I have is 16� form the pith. Walnut is 14 to 16�. Red oak 5� dia. burl. Walnut stumps and some unknown ones.
The turners that I know all two of them are spindle and repair tuners. That�s how I got started and then moved to bowls. It is hard to make a club meeting while building log house and shop, but I could tell the old lady that I am going someone�s shop. I don�t know why but that goes over better than going to a club with the boys.
Sorry for the ramblings but I rely don�t what to burn all the maple. John
>Depends, Mike....If it's to be a deep end grain piece, I mount it between centers, partially shape it, and prepare it to be mounted with a faceplate and dowels or with a tenon for a chuck. If it's not more than 7 or 8 inches deep, I turn a small tenon to go into a matching opening in a glue block, and go from there.
>John, I wish I lived close by, I would come over and help you with your problem. I would even bring some wood and do some trading with you. I sure would like some of that ambrosia maple, we don't have it around here, but have lots of other kinds you probably don't have. Don't give up I'm sure you will meet someone that will have the same attitude as I. There are lots of people out there always looking to make a woodturning friend.
>John, after reading your second post, it appears that you're turning face grain and not end end grain turning, as I thought after reading your first post.
You haven't said what tools you're using. If you're using a bowl gouge, which is the best tool to use on bowls, go to the sharpening article here on WC for pointers on how to sharpen the gouge. My guess is that you're not riding the bevel. and you're not cutting with the grain. I suggest that you buy or rent a video from one of the dealers such as Packard. Videos on bowl turning by John Jordan or David Ellsworth are excellent and should help you a lot
Jumping in a tad late here, but even from far away I might be able to help with the orientation jargon question... You might not need this basic info., but some beginners might be confused reading along on this thread.
Start by imagining a 10" diameter log. If you mount a length of this log on the lathe so the length of the log or branch is parallel to the lathe bed (bark outward in all directions as it spins), that is spindle orientation. If you are cutting this from the side (cutting down through the bark, for example) you are spindle turning if the piece is held at both ends, and for the most part turning side-, or face-grain. If you have a very short section in this orientation, and you are shaping it to make a bowl, held at one end by a faceplate or your Vicmarc chuck, then this is an end-grain bowl (because when you look into the bowl, you are looking at nothing but the ends of the wood fibers facing you). For end grain turning, you'd shape the outside of the bowl from the largest diameter to the smallest (to go with the grain), then turn the blank around, and hollow out the bowl from the center toward the rim, as much as possible, to get the smoothest cut.
Now if you have taken this 10" diameter log and cut it to be 10" long, and then split this down the pith to create 2 flat-faced halves (billets), and mounted one half on a faceplate so the flat side is toward the headstock, you're creating a side-grain bowl. You'd cut in the opposite direction: shape the foot from smaller diameter to larger (toward the headstock, in this example); then turn it around and hollow out the bowl, cutting down into the bowl from rim to center. If you mount the billet on the lathe with the flat side toward the tailstock (usually to make a natural-edge bowl, which is often started between centers), you are still making a side-grain bowl, so you'd still shape the outside & foot from small to large diameter, and hollow out the inside cutting down from the rim, into the bowl to the center (large diameter to smaller diameter).
Note that to get the smoothest cuts, side-grain and end-grain bowls are done in opposite directions. Going the "wrong" way (against the grain) can mean a very rough, even splintery cut, especially with dry, brittle woods (and especially with dull tools). My first try at making a bowl out of Zebrawood (a tough, splintery wood) taught me this in a rather unforgettable way when I felt the spinning bowl with my bare hand...
Greetings from where the water flows the other way. That would be west of the Tennessee Valley Divide. I still suffer from end grain issues when turning bowls. I'm convinced it's my sharpening skills more than technique but I'm sure the latter plays into my issues. I went to my first meeting of the Carolina Mountain Woodturners a couple weeks back. It was worth the time and effort and I joined the club.
www.carolinamountainwoodturners.org
Check out the site and I'm sure someone around these hills can help you out. I'm still basically a rank amateur so I'd have to defer on this one.
Hope things look up for you down there in horse country.
Andy Halterman
Needing some time to get some maple bowls roughed out in Hendersonville, NC
>I must be turning side grain. Thanks for clearing that mess up. I do cut from small to big. I get a nice smooth cut on the outside top side of the end of the grain and the tareout on the bottom of the end of the grain. It's like it tares it out, then as it passes the center axes(sp)of the bowl it cuts very smooth. I am going to start a new tread at the top as well as this post. Thanks every one for the tips. John in NC
