Responsibility and craft(long)

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

TDaniel

>Exactly right Bob. But it goes further than this. I brought the topic up because of 2 specific instances that I have seen recently. As you said, poor products won't sell for long, but the point I was trying to make is that one's poor product can hurt another who is doing good work, not a lot, but some. It is in our best interest to try to help others to turn out a quality product. Each of us should promote fact, things we know for cetain, or add a disclaimer saying "I am trying this and I'll report the results later." Mark Mandell and Gary Hern have both been good to do this. What triggered all this is I saw some pieces recently that went thru the LDD procedure and after being sold warped to the point they looked like a canoe. One of these pieces was returned and the lady received a refund. The guy that made and sold them does not know how to contact the people who bought the others. Good intent, bad end. The guy was convinced that if he followed the formula given everything would be fine. NOT! Every new thing we try should go through a period of evaluation. If using the LDD, how long to dry afterwards to eliminate warp? Will our finish work over the LDD? To get answers to these questions takes some time. I tried the freezer/refrig drying method a couple of years ago. Fair results were obtained on maple, poor results on cherry. None of these pieces left my shop until I was certain there was no more warping. Then again, I had a guy come into my shop one day and spotted a fairly large poplar bowl that had warped like crazy. He asked how much for it and I told him it was a reject and not for sale. He said it was the one he liked because it would go with his antiques. I unloaded it for half price but he knew what he was buying. It is the surprises that we want to avoid.

TD

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

Keith Tompkins

>Hi Guys, It's not just the turners who have problems. Anything made of wood is going to move. Raised panels that are glued in will crack, doors that worked well when new won't open in the summer.Chair legs work loose, table top warp, I could go on but you get my point.

With the segmented work I do, everything must be considered, or problems are going to emerge. woods, even when kiln-dried have different properties, and will work against each other, resulting in glue-joint failure.

I have seen a lot of cross-grain bowl forms with a segmented rim. To me, that is an invitation to a failure. The grain is moving in opposite directions, I think many of those pieces will have problems down the line.

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

Bill Hale / The Wood Spinner

>TD

I have to take exception to the warped formes as low quality.

If the bowl warped in to a very nice oval with no cracks I find they sell well. The buyer, as in your case, makes the determination as to what they want. Again in your case you must have felt the quality of the bowl there or it would have to the firewood bin.

Good turning and be safe

Bill

Excellant!

Ron Sardo from PA

>Educating the buyer is part of the process of selling everything. This is no different with wood turnings.

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

TDaniel

>Bill, I think you misread what I said. If the buyer buys a warped bowl it is because he wanted one and I agree, some forms such as natural edge bowls, the warp is ok.........as long as the warp has occured BEFORE the sale; or, if you tell a buyer "this is a green turning and will warp" that is ok because they understand that. The problem I see is when you sell a lidded vessel and 2 weeks later the lid won't come off or falls through the opening or the bowl won't sit on the table without rocking. These are quality problems, not to be confused with "the nature of wood". TD

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

TDaniel

>Right on Keith; and if someone buys a segmented turning and it comes apart a month later and he/she cannot get a replacement are they likely to buy another segmented piece.....from anyone?

TD

Sales tags and craft

John Cotten, Harrodsburg, KY

>I have for years made a small sales tag that not only tells how to care for my wood bowls, but also to expect the occassional warp, check, or even crack to form especially if used frequently. That is why my utility bowls are priced lower than my art pieces. I don't spend as much time finishing or polishing them either.

I have on occassion taken a piece back, but only if it has not been run throught the dish washer. I specifically say "HAND WASH ONLY WITH MILD SOAP AND WATER, DRY THROUGHLY AFTER WASHING." This along with other care instruction goes with every piece I sell.

They are buying a piece of organic material that will move internally forever. I make sure my customers know this.

My contact info is also listed on the card with phone number. I make my cards to be as much a part of the sale of the piece as the piece itself.

In over 20 years of selling pieces I have replaced exactly 3. One was dropped and broke in half. I replaced it at my descretion. One developed a severe crack down on side (was left soak in hot water on it's side with one side sticking out of the water, it cracked when the owner placed it on the table to dry in the sun. The third cracked just to agrevate me. I still have all three customers buy items from time to time.

Represent your product for what it is,and make sure people know how to care for it, and what to expect of it. It is after all organic material and will do exactly what it is supposed too...whatever it wants.

That is the nature of wood. Round should not be a made an issue. ALL BOWLS WILL GO OVAL AFTER SO POINT IF TURNED FROM A SINGLE PIECE OF WOOD. I have old and new bowls, my own and from others, well known and not so well known turners and every one is somewhat oval if over a year in age regardless of finish, size, wood, grain direction, and type except for laminated pieces. Just make sure your customers know this day one when they buy it.

Re: Responsibility and craft(long)

Keith Tompkins

>probably not, Terry. Some of these pieces require special care. I heat with wood, so my FINISHED turnings are stored all winter in a plastic bag, with a small damp sponge inside, and checked regularly.

That is how fine guitar collectors/users care for their instruments.

I once built a table,commissioned from a well known architect. Rock maple,with an edging all around. I mentioned that the edging would restrict wood movement too much, but I built it anyway, against my better judgement......you can guess the rest of the story. In the middle of the night in the winter season, the owners were awakened by what they thought was a gunshot!

The table had split right down the center, a 3/4" wide crack. Guess who had to build a new table, and of course, the architect wanted no part of the responsibility.

Couldn't agree more,

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Bob,

I just started seriously selling my work (2) years ago. During that time I've had requests for larger pieces. Up front I tell the prospective client that this will take more time than usual due to allowing proper drying. Most respect this.

However, on one occasion, I had a guy who needed a bowl right then and there (I believe it was for a wedding present). I refused on the basis that I would be selling him something that would warp and possibly crack in a short time.

Rather than getting angry, he appreciated my position. Later that year, he asked if I had any "dry" bowls. Luckily I had several ready by that time and was able to offer him a choice. He told me he was glad he waited. So far it's been about 8 months and the bowl hasn't moved an inch out of round.

In short, I believe that "Reputation is everything". Without a good one, it won't be long before word of mouth will make it so that no one will touch your products with a ten foot pole.

Just my take on the matter.

See ya around,

Dominic