Disappointed.....

Re: Disappointed.....

Bill Grumbine, Kutztown PA

>Hi Wally

Don't give up yet. I will post some pics of the calipers I use as soon as I can get to it, probably this afternoon. I have been very busy the past week or so, and my camera is crammed with pictures from our turning meeting last week. The camera is cleaned off now, and I have two visitors coming this afternoon, so I will get some pics while they are up in the shop.

Bill

Re: Disappointed.....

Robert Savit

>Dear Wally,

I'm sorry you were disappointed, but I, for one, found the post very information and useful. I have a captured bar system and a laser, but I really enjoy the process of developing hollow forms "by hand" and using calipers much more than using the captured system and laser. There is a continual problem of finding caliper shapes to measure different forms, and so your photos were very helpful. I generally lurk more than I post, but I always read posts from a subset of participants who I have come to realize have a lot to offer. You're one of them. Don't stop.

Best,

Bob Savit

Re: Disappointed.....

Mike Schwing from Md.

>Geez Wally. Just yesterday I posted a question about hollow forms, roughed out my first last night and today I actually do have caliper questions in my head, for the first time ever. I haven't yet had the chance to dig into the caliper thread - because before last night it wasn't pertinent to me. Now it is. Please don't stop, how else am I gonna learn?

Just because you don't see many respones, that doesn't mean folks like me aren't taking lessons (and notes)

Patience, Wally, Patience....

Russ Fairfield

>Your message was only posted yesterday. Maybe the day before, but I saw it yesterday for the first time.

I don't use calipers, and I didn't respond because most would find it difficult to believe that we can use our fingertips as calipers. The distance between the tip of thumb and forefinger on the same hand, or the fingertips on opposite hands, can be used to determine the wood thickness within 1/16". It takes practice, and not everybody will be able to do it, but it is a useful tool. The only restrictions are the length of our arms and being able to get a hand inside of a hollow form

Re: Disappointed....My reply -- (long).

Wayne Allen (Carson City, Nevada)

>Wally -- What a great resource and inspiration you are!! PLEASE, I (and many hundreds of other people here) BEG YOU to not let the apparent frustration that you have just experienced stop you from posting your beautiful work, interesting ideas and helpful solutions here on WOOD CENTRAL. I guess I was one of the guilty persons who saw your post and did not directly respond. That was a mistake on my part. After seeing your post, the first (and only thing) I did was to say to myself WOW that is a great idea you had. I promptly printed myself a copy of this post of your calipers with the hopes of duplicating them for my use. I was in a hurry and I did not even say thanks. Shame on me!

So, as I said earlier, please don't let the frustration you have stop you from presenting your thoughts, the inspirational pictures of your work, ideas, your personal thoughts and critiques. To not have this from you would be a severe loss to this forum.

Kudos to you for making me realize that my parents were right to make me say thank you to people when you are given things that you really appreciate. Wayne Allen, Carson City, NV

hard question to answer

Steve Antonucci

>I have two calipers: one was in a box of tools I bought in an auction before I began turning, and isn't very useful for small turnings because of its size.

The other is from Sorby, and is the "figure 8" caliper that can be obtained from a variety of sources.

I have turned to another mechanism for measuring thickness: a halogen flashlight and sound. I can usually guess when I'm close via the sound the cutting tool is making. Once I get below 1/4", I will take the halogen flashlight (extra brightness helps, and shine through the walls to see if I have uniform light penetration. Dark spots get noted, and reduced.

By not having the constant source of light shining in my eyes and making me hot, I find that it has slowed me down considerably. This has pretty much eliminated cutting through sidewalls in thin vessels, which I used to do very often using calipers. (also cuts vibration down because I'm constantly clearing the vessel inside out.)

Still trying to figure out how to measure 1/8" from the bottom of a hollowform accurately... been turning through a few bottoms trying to match the wall thicknesses. Light trick doesn't work through a faceplate or chuck...

Steve

Re: Patience, Wally, Patience....

John Lucas

>Russ

I can't get my fingers inside my ornaments and the wood is too dark to use my flashlight with flexible tip. I use sound for judging thickness on light weight woods but heavy woods need thinner walls so I have 2 or 3 bent pieces of wire I use to measure the walls. I will take a photo and post it hopefully this weekend. Got to get the computer fixed first.

Me been sick......

TDaniel

>Hi Wally I read and noted your post but I am fighting the spring bug (cold one day, warm the next) and just didn't feel up to responding. I use 2 things: a large caliper from Highland Hardware that has "France" printed on it, no other name, and for my bigger vessels I just drill a tiny hole and stick a very small wire through it; when sanding with oil at the end these little holes disappear.

TD

It takes time,.......

Dominic Greco in Richboro PA

>Wally,

I've had post on WC that haven't had any responses for a day or so, but then WHAM! A response is there. Some topics people can answer right away. Others take a bit of thought.

Remember when I posted that questions about Tool Storage? It took over 4 days before responses stopped coming in.

You've got to remember that many of us are at work when browsing and might not be able to reply right then and there.

I was actually in the process of writing out my response yesterday when the proverbial manure impacted the motive air device. I had to drop whatever I was doing to perform damage control.

BTW, to make it short and sweet, I use 10" double calipers as sold by Packard Woodworks.

See ya around,

Dominic

Re: Disappointed.....

Chuck Ludwigsen

>I guess I'm with everybody. Please don't be disappointed. I get way too much out of your posts and, hopefully, can sometimes contribute something of value in return.

Remember that, consciously or not, some of us are still at that point that we don't consider our experience or expertise at a level that would add to something you post. Heck, I still occasionally flip open my Raffan book and take note of that one bowl with "W. Dickerman" on it and think "how well am I completing the bottoms of my bowls?".

Another issue is "Topicadditivity". Which is a sniglet for the rapid proliferation of multiple topics in a span of time that inadvertly obscurs a more relevant topic from being discussed in a messageboard.

That said, I am about to post a reply back into the original thread to raise 2 caliper - or turning thickness - issues.

(1) How can we get more shopmade caliper solutions transferred into measured drawings so the financially challenged (me) can more accurately improve our work.

(2) How the spot measurements at various points sometimes obscurs slight problems in the flow of thickness and how we need to be able to measure thickness and variation across a region as much as at a location.

Okay, boy was that a mouthful ;-) Look for that post after my 1:00 meeting to discuss an irrelevant enhancement request from a user at one of our properties. ;-D

Chuck in Memphis, TN.

Re: Disappointed.....

John Stegall

>I did not respond to your post because I still have to come up with another lathe. My small "pen maker" lathe doesn't lend itself to doing much turning that requires calipers. I did like the one you posted that was homemade and I even am trying to figure out how to make one of the others (which I cannot recall the name of, but looked doable, for measuring the bottom thickness I believe).

My lack of posting had nothing to do with lack of interest, just nothing worthwhile to contribute.

john

Wally, I appreciate very much

Alan Tolchinsky

>all that you give to this board. Please don't stop or get disgusted. Of course I'm such a newbie I don't have much to offer but I can ask a lot of questions. :) You're one of the posters I enjoy reading the most. I agree with a lot that's been said here already. Alan in sunny Md.

Re: Disappointed.....

Dinyar Chavda

>Wally: I did not realize that you had posed a question. On going back and rereading your post, I see now that the question was in the title. You have to remember that most of us boomers suffer from short term memory loss, and, by the time we get to the end of the post, we have forgotten that there was a question at the start.

Just a suggestion, which is to put/repeat the question at the end of the post.

Having said that, I don't have much to add, except to say that one of the things now in my shop are pieces of hangar wires of different lengths. THat way I can bend them, on the spot to measure in weird areas, e.g., the side-thickness at the top of a vase with a long flat top.

Dinyar

Re: Disappointed.....

Arch

>Hi Wally,

As a founding member of 'The international Association of Unanswered Posts" and a fellow graduate of the 'Pre-Craftsman Sears Companion Lathe Society', I am pleased to welcome you to this elite, albeit unanswered, group.

Now re calipering: My last miserable suggestions got what the little boy shot at (not here). I made a figure 8 caliper with one side of the 8 having a straight thin leg and its opposing leg a deep curve.. By making a wide tenon or dovetail for holding the piece on a scroll chuck the chuck jaws are spread apart enough for the straight leg to fit between. The thin Outside caliper leg is not restricted by the chuck and is truly opposite the inside leg ( no relation to the "Are You Being Served?" sitcom) and they are perpendicular to the bottom of the piece. After reading this mess, you now have a good reason not to ask again.;) Sorry you asked? Regards, Arch

Re: Disappointed.....

Chuck Ludwigsen

>This is associated with "Topicadditivity". It is the sudden loss of your e-train of thought.

Now what was I saying?

;-)

Chuck in Memphis, TN.

Re: Disappointed.....

Brad Vietje

>Sorry Wally,

I didn't get to see your post till now ...

I use the figure 8 calipers in 2 sizes, and a large "bow tie" caliper with one straight side, whenever they will fit through the holes. When they don't fit, reach, or work with the curve I'm trying to measure, I usually grab some stiff copper wire, and custom bend a caliper shape for that particular purpose. I will have to make up some permanant calipers in different shapes to accomodate all the various profiles.

Thanks for posting your methods and your question !

Safe Spinning,

Brad Vietje

Thetford, VT

Re: Disappointed.....

Peter Teubel

>Sorry Wally, I only use calipers on bowls. All my hollow forms are laser-guided, not calipered.

Re: Disappointed.....

Keith Tompkins

>HI Wally, I'm one of the culprits who made the challenge to the more advanced turners......Luckily for me, I responded to your post! However, After re-reading your post, I realize I didn't answer your question either.

Your post was more relevant than you probably realize; for instance, I'm working on a piece that needs consistant wall thickness top to bottom. I am having a difficult time measuring deeper in the vessel. You gave me some great ideas, and I'm sure others as well benefitted from this post.

Before I became a WC addict, I had never heard of Wally Dickerman. Now, I consider you among the best there is. Period. Don't be disappointed, you are an inspiration to us all. Keith

Thanks Folks.....

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>I appreciate all of your kind comments. Perhaps I jumped the gun a little instead of waiting to see if my post got any action today. Thanks to you folks who posted today with some good info on the calipers that you use in your turning. This sort of information is helpful to us all.

Wally

Re: Thanks Folks.....

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>I don't do hollow forms, yet. Too many "ahrns in the firah" already. I do try to read all your posts, because I like your advise almost as much as I like your turnings. I really appreciated the pictures of your calipers, enough that I saved all of them, along with some notes about who gave me the information, in case I ever wanted to pass on the help to someone else. Further, I happened to be in a Woodcraft store today, for stuff that had nothing to do with turning, but while I was there, I visited their turning corner just to see what they offered to do the job your calipers perform. I wouldn't buy anything I saw there, because your examples look like they work a lot better.

I understand how you feel about discouragement. I've spent many hours writing "articles" for other WC fora, and for BP before that. The immediate feedback is often discouraging. But, over the long run, I see lots of my ideas, and the ideas of others that I have reworked and illuminated, accepted, used and passed on. Something that pleases me even more is when I see someone take something I showed them, and make a significant improvement to it, and pass that improvement on to other users of WC.

All your stuff is like that - worth reading, worth pondering, worth applying in the shop, and definitely worth passing on to anyone who is willing to listen, learn, try it out, and in turn willing to teach it to someone else.

Lets see what Bill Grumbine has to offer regarding depth measurement. I showed him a minor improvement to his depth gauge (for bowls, not for hollow forms), and he showed me a major improvement to mine. So far, I don't think either of us has broken the gauge we are currently using, and therefore, neither of us has actually put both of the ideas together into a single tool, but it will happen one of these days.

Bowl depth gauge

Bob Hackett

>One of the fastest and most simple to construct bowl depth gauges I have seen is a simple narrow board with a hole drilled in the center to accept a radio antenna.You just extend the antenna and then press the tip into the center of the bowl while pushing the board till it touches the rim on both sides.The length of the collapsed antenna is the true depth of the bowl.Thanks to Jacques Vesery for this tip.

Mainely,Bob

That is where I stole it!

John Trant (aka Boxes-n-Bowls)

>Thanks for the reminder, Bob. I have been using the antennae depth gauge for years but I could not remember where I got the idea. Yep, I got it from Jacques when he demoed for us.

Re: Bowl depth gauge

William R. Duffield on the Cohansey

>There are a few alternatives and enhancements that I might suggest.

Most important is I think you need two antennae. The functionality of one of these gauges with two sticks is explained on Bill Grumbine's website.

Bowl Depth Gauge

Bill uses a couple of dowels, with a friction fit in the stick, but antennae would work, and you could glue them in place. But you might want to make the gauge a little more flexible, with additional holes, so you could optimize the probe placement for different diameter bowls.

Here are a couple more photos of Bill's gauge in use.

You set one dowel (or antenna) to depth, then move the stick and set the other one to the same depth.

This picture shows better than Bill's how you transfer the depth to the outside of the bowl, by eye, to aid in shaping the foot.

If I can make a tool that uses a little less technology, and still works well, I consider that an advantage. If I break it, I don't have to run out to the dump and find another antenna. So I like Bill's gauge.

The friction fit in an old worn out antenna or in Bill's gauge can get sloppy with a lot of use, so I have made an enhancement, using a wedge to pin the probes in place once I have them set. If you prefer, you could probably turn the wedge, and drill a round hole to push it into, instead of making it out of flat wood and chopping a square mortise to set it into.

Remove NOSPAM for new e-mail address

Re: Bowl depth gauge

Wally Dickerman at Green Valley, Az.

>The wedge is a nice touch. What kind of wood is that shade of grey?

Wally