>Here is something this newbie is wondering about.
I suspect that a 'spindle orientation' mounting of the wood has the long grain parallel with the length of the lathe. Then a 'bowl orientation' would have the grain perpendicular to the length of the lathe?
Since I want to learn how to do lidded vessels, what is the grain orientation?
Came home from Arizona with a head cold, so I'm laying low and thinking. Now, that can only lead to trouble!
>I'm willing to take a guess and say that the orientation for lidded vessels would be similar to that of lidded boxes. Any box I've turned has been in the spindle orientation.
I believe this has to do with the way each grain orientation dries. From what I understand, face plate orientation will dry oblong. Example: A round bowl eventually drying into a slightly oblong shape. However, with the grain in spindle orientation, this kind of distortion is minimized (not eliminated, just minimized). The spindle grows in "length".
Stinks to feel poorly -- hope you are feeling better soon !
"Banjo", in the woodturning world, refers to the movable base that holds the toolrest, usually refered to as a "toolrest banjo". It only makes music if something is going very wrong !
RE: Lidded containers: Dominic is right -- most lidded containers are turned in "spindle", or "end grain" orientation -- so called because hollowing the container, or box, requires end-grain hollowing, which has a set of methods all its own. Turned "boxes" are almost always turned this way, but "lidded containers" can refer to a lidded bowl, which can be turned in either orientation.
Because a side-grain bowl or container will become somewhat oval as it dries or releases stresses in the wood (even in dried stock, or green end-grain turnings, but to a lesser degree), most folks will rough turn the two parts, making sure there is sufficient extra stock to accomodate movement, then re-mount and finish the object when the wood is good and dry. Starting with dry stock, you can rough turn them today, let them relax overnight or for a few days, then finish turn in just a day or two -- this helps insure the two parts will fit together better once they dry. Rough-outs in green wood need to dry much longer, usually a few weeks at least, but the longer the better.
>Carol, good to see your head cold hasn't dulled your sense of humor. ;-)
Might I also suggest some REALLY hot Ramen Soup with Cayene Pepper. It clears me right up. Love it.
Okay, Dominic was describing spindle orientation as being in parallel to the lathe bed. I agree also that spindle orientation works great. It lets the "lid" mate back with the base and have the grain align.
Yes, wood shrinks across the grain. So, a lidded box turned in spindle orientation wood "appear" taller and thinner.
As for the Banjo. You see that moveable component that attaches to the lathe bed and that your tool rest fist into? Yes, that is the banjo.
>Carol: You came home from Arizona the wrong direction. I came home from arizona last week and all I got was a bunch of Mesquite and dry skin.
The banjo is what the tool rest fits into.
Spindle orientation has the fibers running the length of the workpiece from headstock to tailstock. The reason the other orientation is valled "faceplate" is that screws for a faceplate do not hold well in end grain, but hold quite well in "face" grain. Questions ?
>Actually, I stopped at the Lumber Lady in Yuma. What lovely stuff she has! I will be back to raid her stock for sure.
OK, I got the grain orientation thing visualized. What I was thinking appears to be correct. Its just that information literally floating around my brain has been hard to grasp.
Thanks for the meaning of the banjo. And I do like the 'welding your own' tools rests. As it happens my brother welds.
BTW, DayQuil and other assorted cold remedies are highly overrated. I think they are a sinister ploy to fill the coffers of the drug companies, promising relief but never delivering.
NiteQuil on the other hand is best substituted with a little cough medicine and lot of brandy - flavor of your choice. I can get a fifth of brandy for the same price as the drug stuff. If it is true that the way to get better is to get a good night's sleep, I am on the right path!
>Lidded boxes must be turned with dry wood otherwise the lid will not fit properly upon further air drying. I rough turn the box blank from green wood, allow it to dry for months, remount it to get it round and in the general shaped that I want, let it sit overnight to relieve tension, and then finish turning it the next day (or later).
Boxes are turn in the spindle orientation because the movement of dry wood due to changes to humidity will minimally impact the fit of the lid to the box. The wood will move across the grain (as you noted) but the lid and box will move in synchrony. Thus, it is best if the lid and the box are made from the same blank of a species that doesn't normally move much. Also, it helps if the blank is quatersawn but it is not required.
If I am turning a box from highly figured wood or a wood that moves more than optimal, I like to add a ring of a hard wood that moves very little (red heart, for example) from which I turn the joining rims of the box and lid.
If you turn a lidded vessel (bowl) in the "faceplate orientation", do not try to turn a suction-fit lid. A loose fitting lid that simply perches on top of the vessel's rim is best.
>Carol, from what I've been told if you really take care of that cold it will hang on for seven days; if you just let it take it's course it will be gone in a week. Hang in there you are just building up resistance. As you get older and older you will have fewer and fewer colds because you will have built up resistance to all the variations.
Depending on what size of lidded vessel you are turning, it may become usefull to turn it side grain (bowl) instead of end grain (spindle). There are several wood technology issues at work here.
First of all, you are correct that wood movement is least with the grain. In a bowl, box or vessel, however, you really have to worry about wood movement in two dimensions: radially as the tree grows and tangentially with the growth rings. In a bowl blank, the long grain will not get longer ot shorter, but the side grain will. Consequently, green bowls will usually oval during their drying time.
In an end grain orientation, the wood is moving in both directions perpendicular to the turning axis, but they are moving somewhat symmetrically because the amount of radial movement is much closer matched to the tangential movement than either is matched to the long grain.
In all cases, for a lidded vessel, it is best to rough the piece out and let them dry. Even if the wood is already dry, it is best to rough them out and let the internal stresses relieve themselves before proceeding.
Now, depending on what kind of lidded vessel you are making, the fit of the lid may not need to be so precise. For a small box, the user expects to pick it up and pull it apart using both hands. For a larger box or lidded bowl, the user typically expects to lift the lid with one hand without having to hold down the base because of a tight fit. In other words, a loose lid is the correct design choice.
Also, for a lidded bowl, you should start to be concerned about the strength of the bottom of the bowl. If you turn it end grain, you will have a thin, end grain bottom which will be very easy to break. Just like all open bowls, side grain is the correct orientation because the bottom is stronger this way.
